037: How Telehealth is helping military families get through mental health challenges during the COVID-19 pandemic

Jen Amos 0:00

Welcome to holding down the fort, a podcast show dedicated to curating knowledge, resources and relevant stories. So military spouses can continue to make confident and informed decisions for their families. Because let's face it, we know who's really holding down the fort. I'm Jen amis, a Goldstar, daughter of veterans spouse, and your host for today's show. Let's get started.

All right. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of holding down the fort. Really excited for this next interview. But before I do, I have announcements as always. So I am really excited because holding down the for almost one year later, now officially has a newsletter. Similar to the podcast show, this newsletter will be curating knowledge, resources and relevant stories from the guests that we had interviewed in the past. So you can continue to make confident and informed decisions for you and your family. This is my thank you to the people who have been on our show in the past, and sometimes one interview isn't enough. And so if you are interested in gaining more of these resources from people we have interviewed on this show, please subscribe to that newsletter, you can subscribe in the show notes of this episode, or you can visit holding down the for podcast.com. Now the show would not be possible. If it wasn't for the company, I am so proud to represent us that wealth. While most financial advisors help you plan for retirement. We help you the military family member and the military service member. Take control of your finances today, to create the flexibility you need for who you want to become or are becoming. You can also learn more about my husband who founded us vet wealth and myself by checking out the first few episodes of season two here at holding down the for podcast. Given these very interesting times. US bet wealth is offering a ton of free resources. Right now. One of the first resources that we're giving for free are our weekly action classes, where you'll get a chance to network with like minded professionals, and learn actionable lessons you can implement right away or not, you could just hang out and get to know the people that I'm so proud to work with. And just anyone else who chooses to be a part of these free action classes. Every week, we learn from bestselling authors covering topics regarding identity, self development, or financial control. Learn more about our free action classes at US bet wealth.com. Now this next free resource is also pretty awesome. I think this has probably been our most popular resource so far. And that is our LinkedIn 30 Day Challenge. Now, given these times, I think a lot of people are looking inward and doing a lot of self reflecting and wondering what their next career move will be or what their next business will be. Or you're maybe interested in learning how to continue growing your business online. Well, my husband, Scott R. Tucker is known for his LinkedIn teachings and being a model of what LinkedIn really is today. And he's decided to start over on LinkedIn for 30 days and show you how he would redo LinkedIn if he were to actually start over and he's going to do that through creating a completely new different account and showing you how it's done. So if you are interested in amping up your LinkedIn game, or you're looking to start over, or you're looking to get on LinkedIn, I highly encourage that you check out this free LinkedIn 30 Day Challenge slash masterclass. I think we're calling it a masterclass. You can learn more at us but wealth.com forward slash LinkedIn. Wow, look at that free newsletter with free resources, free action classes, free 30 Day LinkedIn challenge. Please take advantage of our free stuff all brought to you by us but wealth, you won't regret it. You're welcome. All right, with that said, thank you so much for indulging me in my announcements. Please enjoy this next interview on holding down the fort.

Alright, hi everyone, John Amos here with holding down the fort. Really excited to be back. I'd like to introduce you all to some incredible people at the Steven A Cohen military family clinic at veteran's village of San Diego, for sure. They are known as the Cohen clinic at VSD. So here today I have Sherry Hauser, who is the clinic director, and Jenny Lynch troop, who is the outreach coordinator and the military spouse herself, Sherry and Jenny Lynn, welcome to the show.

Unknown Speaker 5:10

Thanks for having us.

Jen Amos 5:12

Yeah, absolutely. So I want to go ahead and start with an icebreaker question given the current state of the US and the world right now, with this whole stay at home order. And we can go ahead and start with you, Sherry, for people that are getting to know you for the first time. What does life look like for you right now?

Speaker 1 5:29

Right now, it's a little bit different than it was before March 13. Right now, we're completely remote operations. So we are wake up, take care of my family and would go to my home office, and I meet with my staff every morning, I have a wonderful leadership staff. We get the day rolling, we see clients through the magic of telehealth and in the Zoom platform, and answer emails and do it all the things I wouldn't normally do in the office through computer, timber. I'm done. I take care of my daughter trying to homeschool her and I actually have three dogs, including a bull mastiff, so you might see.

Jen Amos 6:05

Wow, that's amazing. I heard that it's mandatory for parents to be homeschooling their kids. Is that the case for you? And is the case for me? Oh, my goodness, that must be a lot to handle. And are you working from home as well? Yes. And my husband and I, we don't have kids yet. But I know with some of our colleagues, one of our colleagues, he has to homeschool three of his kids.

Unknown Speaker 6:30

No, shout out to teachers.

Speaker 1 6:32

It's a skill I do not have. So I'm so so grateful to my teacher, my daughter's teachers who will meet with her on Zoom and Google classroom and help take care of that. Because that's it. That's a lot.

Jen Amos 6:43

Yeah, absolutely. I think after this all ends and kids get to go back to school, I think we all will have a deeper appreciation for teachers.

Unknown Speaker 6:50

No kidding, for sure.

Jen Amos 6:53

We have gentlemen here as well. So gentlemen, what does life look like for you nowadays?

Speaker 2 6:59

Similar to Sherry, I have two elementary school age boys. So I get up in the morning, take care of them, get them rolling on their various school things and then sit in my home office and answer email and sit on Zoom calls. And, you know, do the work thing from home and try to manage the chaos of having two boys really close together. And ah, I'm also brand new at this job. So I have onboarded during COVID 19, I got the call that this job became mine the day that our governor in California officially shut everything down. So I am outreaching from inside my own four walls. And that is a really interesting experience.

Jen Amos 7:44

Yeah, I can only imagine. Yeah, because you are the outreach coordinator. You have to get really creative, hence why we're having this call today. All right, well, let's go ahead and talk about the Cohen clinic at BVSD. Man, whoever wants to answer that answer this first, let's start with who is this for? Because I know it mentions veterans in it. But is it just limited to

Speaker 1 8:07

veterans? No, it's for post 911 veterans and their families and active duty families. So we can serve kiddos couples, individuals subsets, we have groups, it's really broadly defined a family is whoever the veteran thinks is their family. And we serve veterans regardless of discharge status, which I think is also another huge benefit. And we also serve National Guard.

Jen Amos 8:34

I think that's really awesome that your organization does that. Because you know for myself, for example, as a Goldstar daughter, I didn't know much about what services were available to me till just a couple of years ago and just thinking that I didn't qualify for anything. And I only felt like I started to qualify for things when I met my husband. But even so it was after his service. I was like, you know what's available to me and I love how you described who you can help is really you know, anyone that a veteran considers family for people that are hearing about the Steven A Cohen, military family clinic of veteran's village of San Diego. So for people that are hearing about this clinic for the first time, particularly military families, what should they know about the clinic

Speaker 1 9:17

that we have really, really talented, very experienced staff that are veterans or military spouses or military kiddos who are now grown up. And they really can help make a difference in family life, especially right now when everyone's home together all the time. And that just takes a phone call.

Jen Amos 9:37

So it sounds to me that it's people in the community that are essentially helping the community altogether. So it's veterans and people, military families that are contributing to this clinic. Absolutely. That's awesome. I don't think I would have it any other way because there's that familiarity when you you know when a client comes in, wants to interact with someone with the clinic

Speaker 2 9:58

Exactly. Are clinicians get it, you can feel it when you walk in the door that they understand inherently, what you're about to present to them, which having been a fan of mental health for a really long time and having my own experiences around the mental health world, it is really great to walk in somewhere and have them automatically know what it's like to be you when you're sitting in the chair.

Jen Amos: 10:28

Yeah. Now, I'm curious for people that are involved in helping out, do they have to have certain credentials? Do they have to go through certain training? Or are these volunteers that help out? Oh,

: 10:40

so all of our clinicians are licensed professionals, either psychologists or LFTs, or social workers doesn't have a psychiatrist who's an MD, we only do evidence based practices. So each person has one or two specialties that have a broad breadth of research that prove that they work. So we do brief client centered evidence based practices. So they're paid, they're paid full time staff. And basically, like Jenny Lynn said, when people come will match you to the right therapist for either your issue or your preference. That's not really volunteer based. Its

Jen Amos: 11:15

staff. Very cool. It just so happens that this stuff is also military, or they had military affiliated variants. Yeah, by design. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker: 11:24

we definitely, that's what we look for.

Jen Amos: 11:25

One thing I love about doing this show is being able to interview people who are in the community are living the post military life, and they continue to give back to the community. I just feel like there's something more powerful about that than to just, you know, maybe get resources from the government that seems so impersonal sometimes. And so it's great to have that familiarity and that kind of connection. And I think it's so awesome that your clinic is doing that and having people in the community be involved.

: 11:55

Thank you. And we're really focused, and we're very mission driven to serve this population. It's, it's pretty much a passion for everyone

Jen Amos: 12:02

there. Yeah, absolutely. Well, well, speaking of which, why don't we talk a little bit about your roles, and also why you have chosen to be in this role. So Sherry, I'd love to start with you, as the clinic director.

: 12:15

So I've always worked in nonprofits. So it's played 25 years now. My dad was in the Air Force, and then the National Guard. So I've always been, and I know it sounds cheesy, but I really believe that America is the land of the free because of the brave, and I just, I could never do it. And it's a way to give back in a way to honor the people who have and their families. And one of my passions also is kids. And so this is a way to actually serve military kids, because I know, they go through so much that other people don't understand. And it's a way to just wrap our arms around them and support them. And keep those transitions and pathways open, especially now during this split Shelter in Place Order.

Jen Amos: 12:56

I love that your heart goes out to military children, because as I had mentioned, I had lost my dad when I was only 10. And I had no idea like what services were available to me until later, you know, 20 plus years later in life. And I remember when I started to realize what these resources were or what was available to me, other than, you know, thank God for chapter 35, my siblings and I were all able to graduate with a bachelor's all of us and my brother and I went to San Diego State and my sister went to UC Santa Barbara, I don't think her benefits applied there. But she got like financial aid, and it worked out. But anyway, it's really in the recent years when I realized what services were available. And I think that's part of my personal mission and why I do the show because I want more people to be aware of what is available to them and more importantly, what they deserve. And so I think it's awesome, you know that you are in the position that you are in to be able to show these military children that they matter. Because it's difficult, it's difficult for even parents to realize that they have to remind kids that they matter because of what they have to do in the service and the sacrifices they have to make.

: 14:03

Exactly. And I think the more that we can get our clinic name out there and kind of destigmatize mental health and help people not suffer in silence. One of the things that I love about Jenny Lynn, is how she's just a proponent for mental health. And she's just out there going, Hey, it's okay. Give us a call. I'll walk you through it. In the short time she's been here, she's already interacted with people trying to encourage them to take better care of their mental health.

Jen Amos: 14:30

Well, that is a great transition to you, Jenny Lynn, why don't you talk a little bit about what you're doing as an outreach coordinator. I know you're fairly new and I know a lot of things have changed in the recent weeks. But tell us a little bit about your position and what it means for you to be representing an awesome organization.

: 14:46

I am to come in because like Sherry said I do have a great love of mental health and equally great love of military families. Because we are one my husband is active duty Navy career At least stationed in San Diego, and we have two military kiddos. So mental health and military families are personal for us. We as a military family have benefited from some of the great services that are available to us. And on a personal note, you know, every time I meet with groups of spouses and friends, inevitably, someone is having some sort of military related issue. And in sharing my own personal story of what we've been through his military family, it opens the door for other people to go, Hey, that's happening in my house. Oh, man, like,

Unknown Speaker: 15:36

Oh,

: 15:37

do you think I should talk to somebody about that, or they'll share a story with me and I'll go, Hey, here's what happened in my house. And here's where we've gone and what we've done to get support that we needed. So I came to Cohen with with that as my background, it's more of a, I now have an official title for doing what I was already doing in small spaces with military spouse groups and our family friends, trying to let them know that mental health is good. And we have good services available to us.

Jen Amos: 16:07

Yeah, absolutely. Let's dive into a little bit more about the importance of mental health. I love that you're all mission based and focus on D stigmatizing it. Why is there a need to D stigmatize it to begin with?

: 16:21

Well, I can do I can do my answer, which would be particularly the military population does not like to ask for help. But grownups in general don't like to ask for help. And it's just hard to say, hey, I need help, especially when it's a mental issue, because you can't see it. You those invisible wounds are real, though. And if you don't have your mind, if you don't have sound, mental health, nothing else matters.

Jen Amos: 16:46

Yeah, absolutely. I want to add upon that, Sherry, because one thing that I had noticed being with my husband is that, you know, he talks a lot about his experience at West Point. And being an army officer, and it was really a lot of just taking orders, you just you were just always told what to do. I mean, he's been a veteran for a long time now. But now that he's been out, he still struggles with kind of thinking for himself, essentially, and having a purpose and even asking for help. And I think maybe part of the military experience is You did say like, oh, you know, they don't ask for help. But I think it's because they were so used to being told what to do, that it wasn't even considered an option to ask for help. That's my personal theory, and sort of what I noticed with my husband and colleagues that I work with, because most of them are veterans as well. And so that's my personal observation. I don't know if either of you kind of maybe agree with that as well.

Unknown Speaker: 17:40

Your listeners can't see us. But we were nodding.

: 17:44

I would say it goes to that mission focus thing, like when you're active duty, I mean, you're always on a mission for something, whether you're shore duty, well, for US Navy shore duty or sea duty, like there's always a mission ahead of you. And mental health is sometimes seen as a rock in the middle of that pathway for the mission. So it's really hard to get out there and go, Hey, I'm having an issue when your sole purpose in life is to, you know, assist other people and stay on mission. So I really appreciate how our clinic is helping D stigmatize that because like Sherry said, the more mentally healthy you are, the better you are able to stay on mission.

Jen Amos: 18:24

I think the benefit of having a clinic is that you're like, Yeah, you like we are a nonprofit that is dedicated. We are here because we genuinely want to help you. And the people that do work there have some kind of military background or affiliation. So I think it adds that extra layer of, you know, uniqueness, and what makes your organization special. Thank you. Yeah, my pleasure. I, I love complementing when I can. Let's talk a little bit about the services, particularly the services that you are offering today, you know, given the times and, you know, we really don't know what the future holds for us. So what services are you offering to our military families today? And then my follow up question to that would be, is it just limited in San Diego?

: 19:09

Well, let me actually back up just a little bit. We offer telehealth and we opened offering telehealth. So for people who don't know tele mental health is kind of the platform we're doing right now is where you meet through zoom. And you see your therapist face to face, although not person to person. So we opened with that and had between we opened September 5, we had about 28% of our clients are already telehealth. So luckily, all of our staff were already trained and how to use telehealth and to do that. And most of our clients were already zoom test halls, so it wasn't a super new thing for them. So with telehealth, we can go anywhere. It doesn't have to be San Diego, as long as it's within California. We can accept anybody that fits all of our other criteria. We also have a case manager and she is amazing and she'll provide referrals. So if we can't help like just hope that we will find some When who can't. So she's everything from connect with resources for diapers to other mental health facilities.

: 20:08

We're also part of a larger network that Cohen veterans network. So we're one on several clinics nationwide, most of them around large base areas. So we actually just opened up a new clinic where you are in Virginia Beach, it's so fun name, the Steven A Cohen military family clinic at the UPS Center, located in Virginia Beach. So we provide services all around the country through our larger organization, that Cohen veterans network,

Jen Amos: 20:35

beautiful, and full disclosure when hope had reached out to me and she's not like joining us live, but she's here in the background, when she made me aware of this organization, I had decided to sign up my husband and I. And so we are actually going to seek a couples counseling. I'm not like disclosing that we have marital issues, it's really more of a proactive thing. But you know, we're planning on that trying out the services in June. So I'm really excited to Yeah, I'm really excited to see what that will be like, for the both of us, we had already sought out couples counseling, but we were paying out of pocket. And let me tell you, it's a lot. It's

: 21:15

Jen, as a clinician, I want to applaud you for going before it's a crisis.

Jen Amos: 21:20

Thank you,

: 21:21

the worst thing a clinician can have is the couple coming in ready for a divorce because I then it's like cutting your hair, you can't put it back. So good for you good for you and your husband, get in there, and I bet you're gonna have a great experience.

Jen Amos: 21:34

You know, him and I we have always individually valued mental health, I just personally came to a place where I thought, you know, maybe we should do this together. Because you know, someone is teaching you how to be better someone's teaching me how to be better. But if we're not on the same page with it, then you know, we are going to have mixed messages, which we do. And we do quite often so. So I'm really excited to see what it'll be like for us when we started in June. And who knows, maybe I'll do like an extra episode, talking about what our experience has been. But I'm just really excited about it. And especially happy to hear that, you know, as soon as I found out it was here in Virginia Beach, I was like, oh, I should definitely, like look into it. Even if we're not going to actually go there physically, it's good to know that it's there. Once all of this hopefully ends sooner than later. Yeah, it's

: 22:19

amazing. I'm just impressed that you brought up all those that you brought that up, I think in our culture, people would rather say, Hey, I'm getting a divorce than Hey, I'm having problems. Right. And that just should not be how it is. So I'm excited you guys are going in that you talked about it, and that you're just doing the part of destigmatizing getting help. Right there. That's it.

Jen Amos: 22:38

Well, thank you, Sherry, I do appreciate you saying that. And I know that it's a lot to say, I do come from a family background where all problems get swept under the rug. Like I know what it's like to get into a fight with someone or get emotionally abused or neglected, and then act like it doesn't happen the next day. And so, you know, fortunately, you know, what I love about my husband is that he has always been one to think out loud. And and eventually it had taught me because I usually think before I speak when I initially had been with him. And as time went on, I was like, you know, I guess it's okay to think out loud. And so I learned how to do that. And then, and then also with us, at least for me, I think to myself that like, Oh, what is it? So someone had recently taught me that as long as you're communicating with your spouse, like there's still a way to work it out. I've never been divorced. But I can only imagine that divorce happens as a result of things accumulating, and not being able to talk about it until it blows up. And then I think there's just that fear of like, oh, my gosh, things are out in the open now. And instead of deal with it. It's like no, it's just it's all over. It's too late. You know, that's my assumption. I could be wrong. I've never been divorced. But I had been in a long term relationships in the past. And that was my experience of like things had accumulated. And had we communicated, you know, in that process, when we like, bring up the problems as they come. I'm sure things would have turned out a little bit differently. So I appreciate you acknowledging that. What have you found are the top issues, or concerns that you know, military families or spouses? Or even the clients that come in? What are the top issues that they tend to come to you for?

: 24:16

How about I answer from the clinic point of view, and then generally and you can take it from a more personal so I would say that for most of our families, it's a dysfunction based on either the veteran or the spouses primary diagnosis, like if the spouse has PTSD, the whole family feels it. So our top three are PTSD, depression and anxiety. So any kind of organization around that is going to be a little bit difficult. For the kiddo surprisingly enough, we see a lot of bullying, a lot of trauma through bullying, either through social media or actually in schools.

Jen Amos: 24:53

And would you say you see bullying happen for the for the military kids? Yes. Yes. I think it's really interesting that You say that because I remember in 98, when we lost my dad, we moved to San Diego. And I dealt with bullying, like pretty much all of middle school.

: 25:10

The middle schools are the worst. I actually have a few kids on my caseload right now, and they're in middle school, and the things that they say to each other. It's unbelievable. And it just makes me scared for our kids. So yeah, bullying is a huge, and kudos to the parents that are bringing their kids in for help with a bit with the bullying, I bet no one brought you in for help with the bullying.

Jen Amos: 25:30

Oh, no, not at all. And, you know, looking back, I realized that and this, this is a result of therapy and a lot of help. So I feel like I can articulate this Well, I think, but you know, looking back, I think I fell into being bullied because I had moved around so much as a military child, that I stopped caring about what type of friends I had, like, my friends chose me, essentially, you know, and I ended up kind of being that nice person that followed everyone around. And I somehow found myself in a situation where I had opened up to someone, and then someone just completely just, like, messed up what I said, and completely like, you know, twisted it. And as a result of that, I had this whole group of girls and a bullying and bullying me in middle school. And I found myself the moment I found out that I could just go to the computer lab, like during lunchtime. That's pretty much what I did for the rest of middle school. So every time and lunchtime, I stopped hanging out with people, I just went straight to the computer lab. And I ended up just making online friends. And you know, hence, you know, me being in the internet marketing, like industry, I think is a result of sort of the trauma I had being bullied. But it's it's a real issue. And I think it's yeah, like I like you said, kudos to the parents that bring the kids in early because, you know, my family, my parents were immigrants from the Philippines. And so mental health was considered a luxury if not a joke. And so it's kind of like, hey, we survived. We made it, you know, and so what's there to complain about, you know, and I wish I had had it back then. But I'm just glad that I eventually got to a place where I knew that I needed help. Jenny Lynn, I wanted to see if there's anything you wanted to add to the conversation so far. So as

: 27:11

far as the question about, you know, why do you think military families are seeking help for from a military spouse perspective, I think the biggest issue most of us face is reintegration, that time period, post deployment, you know, my spouse got a brief on his end, I may have gotten a family brief. But it's kind of vague. It's very, you know, you might have some things and things are going to be different. But everybody will go back to work, everybody will go back to regular life and it will be fine. Well, for me personally, we did not reintegrate, just like that. I mean, because we had spent several years apart with back to back deployments and trainees in between that reintegrating didn't happen in the two week time, you know, he had between the end of deployment and the start of a new job. And I was used to doing it all, I did everything. We had two toddlers during his last deployment. And so when he returned, like I had done everything, so for us to try to get back on the same page of parenting and partnering and being in a relationship was extraordinarily difficult, because he had been mission focused in Afghanistan, on the other side of the world, and I had been essentially mission focus at home with babies. So that's one of the biggest stressors I see as a military spouse that causes a lot of tension is there's no real hard and fast way to reintegrate. And sometimes it requires the help of other people. And I would say most times, it requires the help of a third party that can help, like soothe some of the tensions from living apart for so long. As a mom, you know, I see, with military kiddos, not only do you have the pressure at a certain age, like outside bullying, you know, you have a lot of the internal acting out, and regression and aggression. You know, I had toddlers who were potty trained by the time my husband got home and he got home and it was a brand new person in our house and that you know, mean, the whining and the tantrum and the you know, all of the things kind of start all over again, as a parent, you're like, Wait, there's this brand new person at my house. My kids are falling apart, you know, what do we do? And for us, every subsequent move, move four or five times since we've had children. Wow. You know, every move added an extra piece of impact to my kiddos. And by the time we got here in San Diego, I mean, they were very young, but also kind of at a boiling point of how much more can our little bodies handle. So we have sought mental health services for them to and really for them them in theory, just my boys are eight and 10. It's coping skills, like what do we do when we feel out of control? And that has been extraordinarily helpful in both their individual like growth and, you know, are coming together as a family.

Jen Amos: 30:17

Yeah, thank you so much for sharing that, especially because you're in the thick of it. You know, I think it's easier to talk about these things after it's happened. But the fact that you're being so transparent about your life like today, I really appreciate and admire you for being that open. And I imagine that's part of the reason how you inspire people to learn more about the clinic?

Unknown Speaker: 30:40

Well, thank you definitely is,

Jen Amos: 30:42

what would you say to the military family, or the spouse or the veteran that, like, you know, they should seek out your services. But they don't know how to ask, you know, are they they don't think that they need it?

: 30:59

Well, I will say that I usually just hand out cards, you know, someone will mention something. Well, I guess I should say, I handed out cards before COVID. Now, I said my own house, but you know, hearing some people's story. For me, the best tool that I have found is story. I'm also a writer, I write about a lot of military family issues and building the bridge between civilian life and military life. Because as a military spouse, that's kind of where I live isn't that I'm sort of military, but I'm also not. And so, you know, I found that story is the best way to promote people to seek help. If they know that even one other person out there has gone, then they're far more willing to go knowing that someone else has already been and is like still standing. Like, hey, I went did this thing. And I'm still here still have a job. Still haven't family. Like it wasn't the end all be all. In fact, it was really, really helpful.

Jen Amos: 32:00

Yeah, for sure. It's like you think that you can keep going with like that mindset, but it actually almost holds you back, or it slows you down. And when you get help you actually speed up or you get, you know, it's easier to operate veteran life. And it's so interesting how, I don't know, I think as a society, we've been convinced that we have to just keep running hard and hard and like, you know, kind of keep this perfect facade, or we convinced ourselves that we can keep going and going. And I think something about this whole stay at home order has made people really reflective. I do have a friend where she said like, you know, it's so interesting. I've been depressed lately, because I realized I had found my worth and being productive. And I'm getting praised for my productivity. But now I like I'm not as productive and no one's watching me be productive. And it's really strange. And so I think there's no better time to seek out services than today. I mean, it's always good, especially, especially when you're doing fine, like my husband and I for the most part. But yeah, Sherry, I wanted to check in with you as well. Any any thoughts on that?

: 33:04

Um, my thought is, how I do it is to listen to the story, and then have it have the empathy but also, give them hope. Let people know that they can make a phone call and see if things can get better. You don't have to live this way. Like there are tools is to me, it's the same thing as having strep throat and not taking the antibiotics. There is no point and needless suffering.

Jen Amos: 33:25

Beautiful, beautiful. Well, I want to thank you both for being here today. Sherry And Jenny Lynn. If people want to get a hold of you, whether it's individually or the clinic, how can they learn more about the clinic and possibly reach out to you both? They can call

: 33:40

the clinic at 619-345-4611. We have an amazing office person who answers the phone and she is so empathetic and wonderful names less than they can call Celeste. They can follow us on Facebook and Twitter at Cohen clinic VSD. Or they can email us at info at Cohen bvsd.org. Beautiful. Thank

Jen Amos: 34:02

you so much for that.

: 34:03

Thank you for having us. This was just a pleasure. Yeah,

Jen Amos: 34:07

it was my it was I enjoyed it. I think any conversation about mental health. I just I really get into it. I keep forgetting that you're in San Diego. I have the same area code on my phone. My phone number is always like Yeah, 6190. Nice. Yeah. So I haven't changed my number because I'm still in San Diego, at heart. Awesome. Well, Sherry and Jenny Lynn, I want to thank you both so much for your time. And to our listeners. We hope that you were able to gain one more piece of knowledge, resource or relevant story from today's conversation so that you can continue to make confident and informed decisions for you and your family. All right, well, thank you all so much, and we look forward to speaking with you in the next episode. Tune in next time.