087: There is more than one way to be a good parent with Joanne Holbrook

Jen Amos 0:00

Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the award winning podcast holding down the fort. I am your co host, Jen emos. I'm a veteran spouse and goldstar daughter. And of course, I have with me today, my other co hosts, which is Jenny Lynch troop, who is a active duty military spouse, mental health advocate and mom of two boys. Gentlemen, welcome

Unknown Speaker 0:17

back. Hey, thanks

Unknown Speaker 0:18

for having me. Glad

Unknown Speaker 0:19

to be here.

Jen Amos 0:20

Yes, and I think we're both pretty excited, we were just talking offline about your book collection, you have if people saw this via video, just your library that you have behind you, that is also color coded, which is what I realized for the first time, I'm going to go back to that post that Matthew put of you on LinkedIn, and just look at that, you know, behind the scenes and just look at your library again, like, oh, it is color coded. Like I just want to be able to do that. But we're really excited because we have an author here with us today. Let me go ahead and bring her on. Joanne Holbrook, who is a military spouse of 15 years now, and the author of your passport to parenting. So Joanne, welcome to the show.

Speaker 1 0:58

Thank you. Thank you. So nice to be here. I love my military spouses. So this is awesome. This is great.

Jen Amos 1:04

Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. It's great. And I mean, we already talked offline as well on a separate phone call and just kind of sharing ideas on how to approach this conversation today, I thought I'd start with you sharing just your background of you know, you had identified yourself as a foreign spouse. So tell us the story of how you fell in love with an American?

Speaker 1 1:24

Yeah, well, I'm originally South African. So people often take a while to guess. But I'm South African. And then in South Africa, it's really we sort of pushed out the nest and told to go and do things and then come back and bring them to, you know, share with everyone else. And I went to London, and I was working now as a performer for eight years. And I was working in a theatre company in London, and I went out one night with my flatmate. And we stood in a line for a club and in front of me was three soldiers from Germany. We started chatting, and yeah, there was one that was super cute. So he was there for the weekend. And a few days later, we went on a date, and then he kept on coming back every weekend. That was that.

Jen Amos 2:13

I love it. I love it. I have a friend who her and her husband met in the club in Vegas of all places.

Speaker 2 2:19

Do you have that friend? Do you probably have multiple? I'm that friend. Yeah, I

Jen Amos 2:23

have friends who they literally met their lover in a club and hey, like, that's cool. I mean, here's my take on it is like very often people look at like, they kind of like glorify like a couple once they're together, but like the how we met story, it's always kind of like if you're on most people actually met. It's not a very cute story, you know, but we only look at like what it is the picture is of the couple today, but not really how it started. I'm not saying that that's not very picture as how you two met Joanne. But it's just like funny when people share like, oh, how did you meet? You know, and

Speaker 1 2:54

I mean, I haven't been is the line was two hours long to get in. And we stood in the line of chatted for two hours. And he ran across to a bar across the street and brought back beers. And I was like, Oh, no, I don't drink beer. And then he ran back, he walked back the wine came back had the glasses in his jacket and the six of us as my set may feel sat on the pavement and drank champagne for two hours before we got in the club. So that was that was pretty fun. That's amazing.

Jen Amos 3:24

I'm thinking like, Oh, yeah,: 1520

Unknown Speaker 3:35

It was a good club. It was

Jen Amos 3:39

apparently two hours. That's just wow, I haven't like stood in the line that long since like, disneyland Disney World.

Unknown Speaker 3:45

Yeah, Disney World Disneyland.

Jen Amos 3:47

So Joanne, so here you are 15 years later with your husband in the military. And, you know, you are also a parent. And you know, just so much has passed since then. I don't know if you guys still look back at the day and just kind of laugh about how you met. But here you are. 15 years later.

Speaker 1 4:03

15 years later, five different countries, five different states. That's just crazy. So my husband's been in for 25 years now. So I met him when he was, you know, in for almost almost 10. So I got him it is still the beginning getting crazy. But of the military last, you know? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 4:22

I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

Unknown Speaker 4:24

But you know,

Unknown Speaker 4:27

it depends who you talk to us.

Jen Amos 4:29

Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, you know, let's talk about like what you're up to today, because as I mentioned, you are the author of the book, your passport to parenting. And when we were talking offline, I actually was very fascinated by this book. because growing up as a military child, myself, my family and I moved around for the first decade every two to three years. And it was just always like in regards to like how we learned I'm just surprised that I've made it to adult life and I'm making money for myself, but I don't No, it was just really odd. I think the military life has been odd. But you managed to have found a way to, you know, make it such a great experience for your kids. So tell us a little bit about your book, your passport to parenting. First of all, what inspired you to put this book together?

Speaker 1 5:14

Well, I always said, I'm an accidental author, I really had no urge to ever write a book. I love books, I love reading, but I never thought I'd ever write a book and it slowly happened, you know, sometimes you follow the breadcrumbs, or you just go where you lead. And when I became a spouse, you know, a new mom, I was in a new country had no friends, no family, no, nothing, you know, started having kids. And I realized that we moved every 22 months for the last, you know, few years. And every time I moved, we often move to a new country. So you know, when I moved to a new country, even coming to America was like, the biggest cultural. People don't realize how hard America is to settle into sometimes, but

Jen Amos 5:57

no, we're gonna I'm gonna dive into that later.

Speaker 1 6:01

Yeah, that's all good. Everything was just changed, whether it's good or bad, it's full change. And I realized that, especially when I stop sending my kids to school, or you know, it has been deployed, and it's just you and you don't know where to buy curtains, and you don't know how the school system works. And you don't know, the culture. And all of this, I really resisted it for a long time, I really started being upset anxiety, and all of this. And one day, I just thought no more, I'm just going to see this good in it. And you know, for example, we moved to England and the school system there is completely different. And I had to really fit in as a mom with all the other English moms. And then when we moved to Germany, I had the same thing when we moved to Australia has the same thing. And it's just the thing that you have to fit in with the culture you live in, you can't be not going to change, I'm not going to do this. So I started writing down all the positives about all the countries. And then I started talking to the moms. And slowly, slowly, I developed all these little stories about how other people did it. And then I'd be like, you know what, I'm going to be like the Germans today. And I'm going to leave my kids at home with a babysitter, I'm not going to feel guilty. And I'm going to go and have a date with my husband with zero guilt. And so they were very much like parent time, kid time, partner time, you know, they blocked it intersections, I was like, wait, I'm gonna take this. And I started traveling the world as well, you know, as you do when you live in these countries. And I started interviewing parents, I was like, how did you get here? What was your best thing? What did you do? And I started realizing that I can design my own parenting and and have to parent like, a South African mother would or whatever the case is, I could do whatever I wanted. So part of the tagline of the book became, there's more than one way to be a good parent. Because I was sick and tired of everybody saying what was right and what was wrong. There was no wrong, it's, it's your journey. So the book started is just a bunch of stories, ideas, this cultural stories. There's people I spoke to all of this about what other people did that worked for them. And a lot of the times, I always ask people who seemed like, they had it together, or they had a good idea, everyone has a good idea. And you just have to find it. And I started talking to people and listening to other parents around the world. And I came up with amazing stories that really, you can design what you want, you know, guilt free, because it's all good. It's all positive.

Jen Amos 8:33

Oh, I love that. Joanna, I'm curious to know, in most of the people that you interviewed, were they military spouses? Or did it just kind of depend on the culture that you're in?

Speaker 1 8:41

No, they weren't actually actually very few of them were and literally found people that you wouldn't normally ask, you know, one of my favorite stories in the book I got in Fiji. I was on a boat with a 20 year old guy who was coolest. I've never seen a cooler guy. He looked like Lenny Kravitz. He was as cool as Lenny Kravitz. He was as hot as Lenny Kravitz. He was the whole package. And he was the nicest guy and if he did a super cool, and I said to him, why are Fijian so kind? Why are they so nice? Why are they so open? And I got one of my best stories in the book from this 20 something year old, cool dude about how he was brought up in the Fijian culture. And you know, he spoke about how they teach culture and they teach Think about your community before yourself. And he had a beautiful story with that as well about his dad taking him in the forest and everybody was getting bitten by ants and he was about five and he was screaming and he was like, wow. And his dad grabbed him by the scruff of his neck and took him to side and he said, Stop complaining about the end. Everybody's getting bitten by ends. It's not just you, but when you complain about getting bitten by and to alert everybody around you that they also are getting bitten by end. So you said you first think about others and then you think about your own pain. And he said this is how the Fijian Culture is its first other than yourself. And I just love sharing this with my kids. You know, it's like, Guys, I got a great story for you and then love stories. So, you know, it's just all these little tidbits from here and there in cultures that you just, we don't often get access to. Hmm.

Jen Amos: 10:20

Wow, that's very astounding. Just I start with Jenny land. Any thoughts?

: 10:24

Oh, so many thoughts. I mean, I am a military spouse and parents, military kids. My first thought in this conversation was like, I want to ask you, you know, what has your kids experience been in moving to all these cultures, because I watch my boys, they were born in the same town I was born and raised in my entire life. We left there when they were toddlers, we moved to New York City. And now we're in San Diego. And so we have span the gamut of like rural small towns, southern city to New York, now to California. And we have been able to do things because of our military lifestyle that like, I never would have done as a civilian never did do as a civilian kid. And my kids, we moved out here, I realized, they came with this very interesting sense of how the world works, because my husband wears a uniform. Because in New York City, we were one of one like, he was it. And we move out to San Diego. And we're one of you know, 9480 people and every other door is military out here. And so my kids had a very big shift in like, Oh, it's not the same wearing your uniform here that it was there, because we're all like everybody's doing it. And so it's been interesting to navigate, as a parent, to be in all of those different cultures. And to watch my kids grow up, because now they're upper elementary. And so they forget a little bit how it was in New York, because we've been here for so long. But we're getting ready to PCs, again, to a small southern town. And I have like, I'm a little nervous, because we've lived in these places that are very, like big and open and very different than where I was raised. And I just wonder, with all of your moving around, like, you know, what have you noticed in your kids that they've kind of picked up as they've come along?

: 12:20

Well, firstly, you hit the nail on the head, America is 1000 different cultures that you live in America, you know, I mean, I get it. So you know, New York, San Diego, I mean, it's two different countries worlds, you know, and that's what it is just moving our kids, whether you do a kindness or kindness moves, you still changing culture every single time. You know, moving to England and Australia sounds glamorous, but it's just as tricky to move from east coast to the west coast. So I think that that people underestimate that I think a lot of the time. You know, one thing I've realized, and this I have got from military spouses and seeing different people, if they believe you, as a mom, you know, if you tell them, this is going to be crazy, this can be terrible, this is going to be anything here, you say that they are going to buy into what you're telling them. So if you feed them, the I call it the positive brainwashing stories, you know, if you feed them, it's true if you feed them, goodness, like if you say, Oh, my God, you are the luckiest kids in the world to do this, because everyone else, they don't get to do what you're doing. And you just pull all this goodness into them, they're going to believe you. And next with experience is going to start. So if you say, Oh my god, you know, everyone has stereotypes of different cultures. And I don't ever go into those with the kids, even if you like know them, you know, you don't say things, because they'll see it as you see it. And if you go in and say, Oh my God, we get to live in small town. That's what I come from, you know, for you, you're gonna see how I got to grow up and dedicate a day and you can share that and they want to know how mom grew up. And they want to experience that as well. Or, you know, just bring up the goodness from each place. Because there is, I don't think there's a perfect place to live. I've haven't found it yet. And I think that everyone is positive and everyone has negative and if you focus on the negative, that's what they buy into. And if you focus on the positive, that's what they buy into. So, you know, we have to watch our words, but it's more fun for us as well to focus on the positive and PCA thing because we often go crazy.

Jen Amos: 14:29

I love that. So do I and let's talk a little bit more about your book, your passport to parenting. And there's one thing that you really spoke about earlier that I think stood out to me and I think would be very reassuring for other military spouses to know is you mentioned after a while you said enough like enough of what you know how my parents are telling me how to raise my kids how this culture is telling me how to raise my kids you know how you know anyone but myself is telling me how to raise my kids enough. I'm going to figure out you know how to Do it myself in the way that I like. And I think that's a very empowering thing to say, you know, and I just want to acknowledge that. And so I think that that's the important thing I want to point out, first of all, is like how you just kind of owned it as a mother to say, Hey, I'm going to raise my kids away that I want, in all of the places that you've traveled to five countries and four states and moving around every 22 months, have you found like a common theme, or just any commonalities that you feel like stuck with you in the way that you raise your kids?

: 15:33

Did? Well, firstly, you know, when you live in your in your same bubble, you know, we all have these bubbles that we live in. And even if you live there for 22 months, or if you live there for your whole life, it's still a bubble that you put around yourself, and you do get affected by that bubble. But if your bubble keeps on moving like it does for military spouses, you get confused, because, you know, one bubble tells you that this is the right way. And the other bubble told you that that's, and that's the point where I said enough because there were too many bubbles, too many opinions, too many things. And it was, it was a blessing, because it's nice to fit in as well, you know, we all went to, so it was nice to turn around and go No, that that doesn't work for me. And yes, there was a common thing. So in my book, I have 11 cultures that I bring up in the book, just from traveling as well. And one of the things that I found was when I interviewed people, especially older moms, you know, I used to look at older moms, and they would have amazing relationships with their adult children. And I've always got to them and God, how did you do that? What was the recipe for that? Tell me now I want to know. And that was when I got the most, you know, powerful conversations was from the older generation who had done it and was sort of looking back maybe for the first time. But what's the thread between all those people from England to Scotland to South Africa to all these people that I met was the people whose parents had with the end in mind, were the ones that had the easiest parenting. And the better results At the end, the ones that had the end state in mind, the ones that had the goals. And that's actually what my course is about. It's parenting with the end in mind, and I take you through it a way to get there in seven days. So that's sort of how the whole thing works. So I think if you just wake up in the morning, and you a mom, and you just rinse, wash, rinse, repeat, and you just carry on every day. If you don't stop and think you know, you have 18 years of influence. Are you making those every morning count? Or are you just ticking of each day, and all of a sudden, you're like, Oh my god, they're graduating high school, where did the time go? So you know, I think that the parents who didn't, you know, rinse wash, repeat that once you had a plan. And a goal doesn't mean you have to work that hard, it actually makes it easier. Because you're not just feeding value, the Masons randomly you have a place to put them makes life so much easier. So that's basically what I share. What I teach is how to just make parenting easy, because it's exhausting sometimes, and especially as military spouses. I mean, I know when I move, I allow myself to freak out and I tell the kids, I'm gonna have to freak out. I'm gonna have one before and one after. And they know that, you know, it's overwhelming. So you have to have something to ease your life because you can't have it together all the time. You can't so this is an easy out, Randy. Mm hmm.

Jen Amos: 18:24

I like how you find a way to customize your bubble. you no matter no matter where, yeah, let me know. So you're encouraging people, you're encouraging parents to think with the end in mind? Are you able to share with us like what your end in mind is for your kids?

: 18:41

One of the taxes in my book is don't raise an asshole. And it's really

Unknown Speaker: 18:47

that's a good that's a good Yeah.

Unknown Speaker: 18:52

Okay, like a military spouse. I

Unknown Speaker: 18:54

love it.

: 18:58

Because, you know, it's just about, you know, instilling what values are is your family, what values your family hold, everyone's going to look different. And in my course, we go through what are they? You know, do you know, do you actually know three things that you strive for as a family? With my don't read an awful chapter, it's really just about taking off your rose tinted glasses that your children are probably that are going to be assholes at some point, or they have to be that human, you know, and are you okay to call them out and call them an article? You know, like, I love it. So that's basically

Unknown Speaker: 19:32

Hey, son, you're being an asshole.

Unknown Speaker: 19:35

Oh,

Unknown Speaker: 19:36

this conversation is bringing me so much joy.

: 19:40

You know, I did this video thing once. And in it. I said, you know, an adult Otto is a was once a kid whose mother made him being also when too many times that, you know, it's just about, you know, what are you willing to do as a mom is, you know, are you willing to see your kids for what they are when the teacher says your kids been orphaned at school. Are you willing to look at your kids for who they are? And then instill the values that you want? Or are you just going to be like my kids? Because they're not always.

Jen Amos: 20:12

I love that. That's real talk right there. Jalen.

: 20:16

I mean, I've been on both sides of that boy and I have a master's degree in elementary education. So I have been the teacher that has to make the call. And I've also been the parent that's gotten the call. And I mean, I think for me, having taught elementary school for a while gave me a view into what it was going to look like to have kids because you have 25 different personalities in your room. And so my boys are now at the age of the grade level, I taught for the longest. And it is amazing to me how even over decades like they are the exact same, like they could have been kids in my class. And I called them on that all the time. It you know, as you were talking, like, we just had a conversation with my 11 year old this morning, because I am his teacher, we are legit homeschooling, we pick the curriculum. I'm the teacher, my husband is the backup. Like, we're not virtual learning, like we're doing it. And this morning, I said, Son, you know, how is math? And he's like, Oh, it's done. I said, like, all the way done.

Unknown Speaker: 21:15

Yeah. Done.

Unknown Speaker: 21:17

I said, Oh, you know, what was it today? And he said, Oh, I did myself tests. And I said all of it.

Unknown Speaker: 21:21

Yeah, the whole thing.

: 21:24

Because I hadn't seen anything. And he goes, Well, except for the ones that were really hard. And I was like, rules. So you just skipped them. And he was like, they were hard. Did you try them? No. And finally, like it finally came out? Mom, they were just really hard. So I didn't even bother, like, just totally left them blank. Wow. And so we walked back over to his math book. And I was like, okay, you know, did you ask for help? No, why not? Like, I'm your teacher. And I don't know that you don't know how to do that. If you don't go, Hey, Mom, this is hard. I need help. And it gave us a great way to talk about mean, because really, I guess when you're thinking about parenting with the end in mind, like my husband, I don't want to raise assholes. We've spent a lot of time in therapy adults, like, and one of the things we really want out of our kids are to know how to do hard things and to ask for help like, and that asking for help allows you to do hard things. So then we got to share all of our parenting wisdom with him this morning, which for our 11 year old was an excruciating, 15 minutes. But I will say, you know, I mean, it's the thing we talked with him about, like how it's the same in math, as it is in relationships as it is with kids on the playground, like, you have to be willing to try hard things, and you have to be willing to ask for help. And like, it just I am grateful for my time in the classroom, being able to also stay at home with my boys for most of their lives, to be able to know their personality, and know when to push and when to go Oh, no like that. You know, I walk a fine line of knowing who my kids are. And also trying to encourage them to be kinder, gentler people without giving them like the oh my gosh, you're being such a pain. Because they can be tough. And also they can be kind. And I think, you know, knowing with the end in mind and walking that line is essential to being impaired.

: 23:26

You know, talking about that, one of the stories in my book, my favorite story, I'll share with you because it was actually the one that started the whole book process. And when we lived in in the UK, I made a my landlord, I lived on a farm and she rented out all the bonds on the farm and we lived in one of the bonds. And she used to invite us over for Sunday lunch every week. And she used to have adult kids there. Now she was a farmer's wife, a magistrate. The most amazing woman, she was just she blew my mind. I was in awe of her all the time. And, and you know, I was in my early 30s then and she was probably in her late 50s, early 60s. So there was a big age gap that we became, she became like my mentor, she was always just pouring love into me and my family and everything else. And we used to go to the house for Sunday roast. And I used to watch her adult children. And they had the most amazing relationship. And I was like, I don't know what it is about them. But I want that, you know, that's when I really want that relationship. It wasn't like mom and dad. It was just, it was cool. It was calm. It was it was something solid under it. Anyway, we spoke one day and I asked her about it. And she said to me, she never met her two children ever. She tells them stories. So what she would do, she would she said you open the door for conversation when you tell them a story and not next to them. So what she would do is she would come home from the cold and she would be like, oh god, I need to tell you something. Or maybe I shouldn't and then they're like, what's going on? And she was like she would be like, well, this guy and he was selling drugs in high school and she would get the outcome. That she needed through somebody else's story. She was never going. Yeah, that's until you, you know, cuz they switch off, you know, but they remember stories so she would find stories in the newspaper from other people. And she would just sort of keep them in her little memory bank. And she would just bring them out when she needed to teach a lesson to someone else. And she said, eventually, all her friends, kids would come to her instead of going to their parents. And she said, she still believes that that is the number one reason that she has such a great relationship with her kids, because she never did the mom dad lecture. You know, when they stop backing out of the room, and they I stopped rolling, they actually gauge the level What happened to them? What was the next step? What happened? Then? What happened, then, you know, or when you're watching TV, you know, the internet, we're watching some show and the kids, the teenagers went down, they had a party and they were drunk or the police arrived. You know, we back you know, we have a friend whose daughter was in, in school, she got a scholarship revoked because she was caught at one of these parties of underage drinking. I didn't make to them. I just told them a story that about a consequence of somebody else. And they were like, they were full of questions, which I didn't have all the answers to. And they were like, what, what happened, then? What did she do? What's she doing now? instead of like, Yes, ma'am. You know, roll eyes. So that was probably that's in the book, too. And that was probably one of my favorite things to do. Could you tell stories from your childhood? And they want to know, you know, what do you like? Good and bad, you know? So that was, that was a big one for me that, that I and it makes it easy to because I don't feel like that nagging Mom, you know, a lot of the time to tell us stories. Feel good. We storytellers, you know we all are?

: 26:43

Yeah. Oh, no, that for sure is I love that model. I wish I remember that more in the moment. As you're talking. I can think like, when I talked to my son this morning, I actually did tell him a story. I told him that I didn't like to do hard things in my current job asked me to do things like call people on the phone. And I don't even like to call and ask for pizza. And it requires me to do things that I fundamentally don't know how to do, because I've never done this job before. And he goes, What do you do? You just don't do it? And I was like, No, I have to do it. It's my job. So I said, I call one of the other 19 people that do this job. And I asked them how they do it. And then I try their way. And if that way works, I keep doing it that way. And if it doesn't, I you know, make it fit for me. And he goes back to the iPad.

Unknown Speaker: 27:31

But

: 27:35

yeah, it was easy. That was perfect. I mean, you just told him that you're human. And you're also figuring it out. I think they think that once we get adults, we know. I think it's important to like, not set the bar too high, you know? Oh, yeah. Oh,

Unknown Speaker: 27:49

we read all the time.

: 27:50

Yeah. We don't making this up every day as we go along. Anyway, they need to know that it's not like you get there. And you're like, Oh, here it is. I got it.

: 27:58

Yeah, we've discovered that with hours where they're very much like, Yeah, but you're adults. And we're like, yeah, and we are still figuring all this out every day, like, both my husband are 38. And I'm like, it doesn't matter if you're 11 or 38. Like you're still having to ask people for help. You're still having to try hard things. It's different asking for help and different hard things. But we still have do that. And they're like, I can see in their eyes. They're both still a little skeptical. And like, oh, wow, really.

Jen Amos: 28:27

I love it. I really like Joanne, I like that kind of technique that you shared with us and sharing a story as opposed to telling people what to do, I have come to find that the power of storytelling is that people learn about themselves through other people's stories. And it kind of makes you be more reflective, and kind of gets your you know, kind of wheels spinning in your own head. But if you just tell someone straight up and I think about, you know, you both are so thoughtful in how you're raising your kids, I think about how my mom raised me. And it was very much like don't do this. Don't do that. How dare you. You know, like it was just very, you know, my mom, that's just that was just my mom very much like go getter solution oriented, like never explaining things. And I'm a curious person by nature. So even if I ask questions, she's like, it just is what it is, you know, and so and so eventually, I acted out in my own way, my teenage years. And so that that took some time for me to fast forward to today, I have a great relationship with my mom just want to put that out there. But I definitely acted out quicker in life, because of just that lack of communication, and just kind of using my own curiosity and my own anxiety of what I was going through in the military life. So you know, to hear you both talk about just how just how much you care about your kids, and how you want to raise them. It gives me hope for our military children. So I want to thank you both and exchanging these stories and this conversation today.

: 29:51

You know, and one other thing I think that military spouses sometimes forget because we do sometimes get wrapped up in the negative, you know, waiting for orders waiting for this waiting for that. This isn't Right, this isn't right, we get wrapped up in this crazy checklist and everything else. But what we don't see is the positive of the move. You know, sometimes, like, My children are involved in no drama at school, because they're never in a school long enough to get sucked up into the drama. You know, they didn't start school in kindergarten, I went to the same school, I was in the same town for 26 years before I left. And you know, you get sucked into drama you box. It's not all good to stay. And it's not all good to leave. You know what I mean? Like I said, there's a balance, but my kids don't get sucked into drama, because they're never there long enough. And then my, you know, I've spoken to other military kids who aren't, you know, in college, and you're starting their labs now. And they're like, yeah, I never had any issues, because I was in an app. And if you didn't like someone, you'd have to count down the days until they left or you left, you know, and it actually eases things a lot for, for everybody, you know, so if that's something that we've done, often considered, you know,

Jen Amos: 31:02

yeah, and I definitely just want to share as you know, being raised in the military life for the first 10 years, like what it has done for me in my adult life is I am very decisive, I can pick up very early on if I like someone, you know, and I'm the kind of I just, I just can and even in the projects that I do, you know, it's like, I don't dwell on things for too long. But actually, you kind of have a double edged sword to that is I, you know, living in Virginia Beach now, for two years, I think this Yeah, we're reaching our two year mark, I'm starting to have that itch to move. Like, even though we've declared that this is our home, like my husband, like, Okay, this is Oh, like, unless something catastrophic happens. And we need to, like flee the country, which I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. But, you know, until then, this is like, this is home for us. And I'm having to talk to my therapist about it, I'm like, I just, for whatever reason, my body, I have this internal clock, to, like, start packing up and going, you know, like, like, even even though we've lived here for two years, now, I still have boxes that are unpacked, you know, we still haven't bought, like, the kind of furniture that you know, you're gonna live there for years, you know, and so I'm just learning to settle down. It's a very interesting experience for me to kind of have the outer body experience, but like, wow, like this is built in me to move quite often. And even when I lived in San Diego for a good 20 years, I moved around a lot, even then, and I was even feeling restless for the times that I was settled somewhere for some time. So I think that's like, sort of a double edged sword. But you know, again, talking about the positive side of it, I love how I'm able to pick up early on if I like someone or not. And I also know, when it's time to let someone go. And even though I'm not moving somewhere, I picked up the language, you know, to express that if I feel like something, you know, if a certain friendship isn't working out anymore, and what have you, but I test all of that to my own upbringing as a military child, you know, moving every two to three years.

: 32:50

Yeah, and I think even for the spouse, you know, we forget about ourselves a lot of the time, you know, we still focused on our kids. But, you know, there's certain positives for us too, is that, you know, if you're in a career, you can go for training in places that you wouldn't have had if you'd stayed in one spot, you know, degree in theater. And every time I move, I'll end up doing something else that makes my resume. Amazing, because I would never have got that opportunity. Had I not moved or had I not got somewhere or, or whatnot. So the positives, you have to find them and you can't wallow in the well, you can for a little bit always allow a little wallowing time, but then you got to move on.

Jen Amos: 33:28

I love it. Oh, wow. Well, this has been a really awesome conversation today. Joanne, I just want to make sure I've covered all my bases here. Is there anything else you want people to know about your book, your passports, parenting, or just anything else you want to share to our listeners who are mainly military spouses?

: 33:47

Yeah, well, if you're interested in the book that you can buy on, it's available in Amazon worldwide and Walmart can Barnes and Noble and big stores online and basically get it anywhere. Right now online. And yeah, I'm on social media, I steal passports, parenting, I'm on Instagram, and Facebook. And I have some courses going now I've got one about parenting with the end in mind. It's cold Ignite. And it's a seven day 15 minutes a day. bite sized pieces. Little bit. I have two one starting on the first of March. Just run it now. And it was unbelievable. It was just the most beautiful space for moms. And it was just amazing. And we had people from nine different countries in our last one so it was really huge. So yeah, I'm doing it again in March because it was so much fun and so great. And yeah, it's it's basically it's for you and your partner to be you know, through the course together and you can know what you while you're in status. So let's start this March. But yeah, everything's on social media now for me, so yeah, she knows COVID we all are stuck behind the social media. So everything's on my Facebook page, your password. parenting or Joanne Holbrook on Facebook and Instagram so easy to find easy

Jen Amos: 35:07

and even easier because all of this will be in our show notes. So you're welcome. Jenny Lynn, any closing thoughts from you?

: 35:15

Oh, this was fun. You know, I love writing and talking to authors and all the things and fact that we're both military spouses, raising military kids and discussing online on air is fun, fun, fun, fun. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker: 35:29

I love it.

Jen Amos: 35:29

We hope that today's episode gave you one more piece of knowledge resource a relevant story so you can continue to make confident and informed decisions for you and your family. We look forward to speaking with you in the next episode. Tune in next time.