105: "I live and breath by my calendar. Doing this is my self care." Blue Star Families of Dayton & Southwestern Ohio and caregiving in military families with Dr. Geri Lynn Maples

Jen Amos 0:00

, way back in November: 2020

Speaker 1 0:51

you. Thank you guys so much for having me back. I'm so excited to be here and give you all an update.

Jen Amos 0:57

, back in November: 2020

Speaker 1 1:59

embers and we are approaching: 1700

Jen Amos 2:52

Yeah, and we were talking a little bit about how I'm planning on doing some traveling in the upcoming weeks. And I hope that you know, you and I Jerry will be able to meet in person and you know, we'll take a picture of the selfie. Yeah, yeah, we'll take a selfie maybe do like a little interview, who knows, you know, genuine and I did our first like video recording together. When we were in person a couple like was that like last week or at each anyone at the time of this recording? Wow, I feel like so much is like happens. And then. But it's so refreshing to know that things are opening up again. And we can see people in person, I think it just gives me a deeper appreciation for going out and being social as much as I didn't always like it when it was more accessible. But no, it's great. And I'm just very happy for you to know that your chapter First of all, has expanded to southwestern Ohio, and also is expanding in regards to memberships. So I think that is just, you know, quite incredible. And of course, we have to give a shout out to last April during the month of the military child, being able to you know, come there as your keynote speaker for the empowering Mel kids resources fair. So just thank you again, for that opportunity. It was interesting, like being able to come and talk because I just feel like I'm kind of coming from the past or the future or whatever, and just being able to like, share some insight to the families and the kids today. So I can't thank you enough for that opportunity. And, you know, just your continual collaboration with me, Jerry. And yeah, being involved with holding down the fort.

Speaker 1 4:15

It's you know, what, thank you so much for doing that. You know what that was the first time we had done anything like that. And it was definitely important, I think is important for two reasons. One, you were able to share your story and connect with Ashley and Dylan, the two milkins. And I think that really worked well. And it really put into perspective, the reason why it's so important to bring these resources together. And you know, I know the families loved it, and it just really flowed together. So we're gonna have to do that again next year.

Jen Amos 4:47

Yeah, absolutely. I'm more than happy to be of service for you all, Jerry. And I really did enjoy speaking to the kids because it was interesting hearing their answers. I felt like they were quite articulate because I just think about my And I wouldn't have been able to describe what I was going through, you know, I wouldn't have been able to describe just that journey of change and accepting it for what it is like, you're just kind of in the thick of it when you're a military kid, and you're just kind of, yeah, you just kind of submit to the life in a way and you just trust your parents. And, you know, it's a very interesting thing. So to be able to talk to them and actually hear themselves explain their experience was, in a way, it was kind of therapeutic to me. It's like, Oh, yeah, like I get that I get how you're feeling. So thanks again. And I look forward to be able to do that again, hopefully next year. Absolutely. I'll put it on the calendar. Cool. Genuinely, I know you weren't involved in that. But I was just I want to check in with you and see if you had any thoughts so far.

Speaker 2 5:40

Oh, I did catch a bit of that blue star family they and anything that promotes our, our military kids, I think is is a definite resource for our community as a whole. Being the mom of two military kids myself, then being able to connect with people who live this lifestyle has proved super important, especially as we PCs. You know, right now, most of the neighborhood kids ironically enough, we live in a neighborhood that's like half kids, my kids ages and half people either in the military or retired from the military. The military families, though don't have the kids that are my kids ages. So they're with civilians quite a bit. And it's been interesting to parent in this season to you know, the last time we PCs, my kids were fat, just turned five and six. And this time, they are Tim and almost 12. And they have real feelings about being military kids and being uprooted and having to have new community and do new things. So I think any resource we can get out there to help parents like me, and also give voice to the kids stories is great.

Speaker 1 6:52

Yeah, you know what, I am so glad to hear you say that genuine because one of the things that we're doing here at Blue Star Families we did last year, and this year, it's grown even bigger is Blue Star welcome week where we're welcoming new families like yours who are in the middle of pcsing. I believe the total is 600,000 plus for this year alone. So we have dedicated the September 25 through October 3 is Blue Star Welcome Weekend. I have lots of fun things planned, but they're all specially designed to welcome new families and align resources and get to know your neighbors. And we're just really excited about that. So all of our 11 chapters plus our national chapter have awesome things going this year for that. So we're excited to be able to do that. And you know what, if you guys are here in the Dayton Southwest Ohio region, come play kickball. It's gonna play kickball. But

Jen Amos 7:53

I love it. I love it. As I was checking out the website. Jerry, I noticed that right now, at least a time this recording. You all are having a blue star summer camp. Is that correct?

Speaker 1 8:02

well, last year, we had about: 1100

Jen Amos 8:59

have been so busy during this pandemic. And I say that in the best way possible. And we'll dive into this topic a little shortly here, but I just have to ask you as a military caregiver, how do you do it? How do you manage to do this all and you know, help the community but also yourself having to take care of your husband?

Speaker 1 9:17

Oh my gosh, I get asked that a lot. And I think the best way to answer that is a I have a calendar, and I live in breezed by my calendar. And it's really just you know, if I have something going on and my husband has, you know, some kind of appointment, you know, it all goes on there. And oftentimes my supervisors asked me Do I ever sleep? You know, I do. I do get some sleep. But it's therapeutic to me. It's, you know, it's all about self care and doing this is my self care. And, you know, I'm able to balance thankfully, you know, I work for an amazing company who allows me that balance I don't keep normal work hours, I don't have nine to five work hours. But, you know, I am able to balance that care. And I'm not just caring for my husband, you know, both of my kids have a severe, incurable illness, I have to balance their appointments as well. And sometimes it does get a little overwhelming. So I have my me time, whether it involves music, you know, I have to give a plug to Rob Thomas, thank you. Thank you for getting me through all times, with all your albums, I swear, sometimes I think he's talking about me. But you know, it's just I take my me time, I use my calendar. And it really is my self care. It's a way for me to give back and show others that you're not alone. And I think that's really important to be able to do that.

Jen Amos: 10:54

I love that. I mean, I reflect on all the work that I do. And a lot of it has a lot to do with working through even my own traumas of having grown up, and the things that I have dealt with. And I can resonate with that. It's like, oh, you're kind of turning that pain into your passion, or you're using it as what do they say that, you know, you turn your mess into your message, you know, you turn what you're going through, and you turn your story into being of service to others. Right. And I love that. I think it's incredible. Jenny Lynn, as a mental health advocate, I know that this is very great for you to hear, to hear Jerry, Jerry talk about self care. So any thoughts you want to add? Yeah,

: 11:26

I mean, it was interesting. I was thinking, gosh, she really must not ever sleep. She talked about how you know, work is self care. And for me in a lot of ways, that's very similar. The outreach that I do for the organization that I work for, is solely based on my experience with my own family's mental health. And it is incredibly important to me, to be able to take what I've seen and done firsthand, and be able to offer a resource to my people, you know, for them to get the good care that they need. My husband went back to work yesterday after five weeks off from pcse. And we don't have a nanny right now. And my kids are tired of each other. And so I have monitored more things today before we sat down to record than I care to and I'm like tentatively eyeing the window, like waiting for some eruption on my front yard. So I apologize, I'll go back and be the person I'd like to be and say that, you know, really turning your mess into your message just resonated so deeply with me on the topic of mental health. You know, after all of the treatment and good care that my family has received, to get back to better, it is very important to me as an outreach coordinator to let people know that that care is there for them too. And in some small way, being able to spend hours giving back does a little bit feel like self care.

: 13:06

Yeah, absolutely. Sorry. I was just gonna say, Yeah, it really does. It's so therapeutic.

Jen Amos: 13:13

Hmm, awesome. Well, you know, we've been hinting at this since the beginning talking about military families and caregiving. And we were talking a little bit about this offline. But even this sort of caught you off guard in a good way. But the Blue Star Families released a special report for Caregiving and military families. Just earlier this year, June 2021. I'm going to read the description here for people who haven't heard about it. But for the first time, you can get an unprecedented view of this special population of military caregivers, through a focus exploration of data from the 2020 military family lifestyle survey, you can learn how military families are caregiving who military caregivers are and who they are caring for how the military lifestyle affects caregiving, and much more. And so initial thoughts, Jerry, when you found out that this special report was available,

: 14:00

I was really excited. Yeah, see that to see that special focus. And, you know, I know that we did this in in collaboration with some other organizations and to see that collaboration. And that ongoing conversation is just really exciting. And I know I mentioned I'm still going through it myself, because I was a little surprised, like, Oh my gosh, I didn't know they were working on this because at least our families were always working on different things. And so it was a pleasant surprise to see for sure.

Jen Amos: 14:27

Yeah. And it's just nice to know that there is you know, more awareness of this because I know that in your doctoral dissertation, which is titled, surviving invisible wounds of war as told by the unseen heroes, your dissertation focused on your personal story as a national guard, military spouse turned caregiver and the impact of post traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury upon National Guard and Reserve military spouses and their children. So it's like you have been working on this for some time. And of course, this book, your dissertation isn't just available in academia. Is it still at Barnes and Nobles remind me if it's still available, there.

: 15:00

It is it's still there on Barnes and Noble. It's a series now. So

Jen Amos: 15:05

Oh, I love that I just I love how again, it's like, I feel like you are, at least to me the first that I know to really advocate for military caregivers. So it just must be, I don't know, a relief to know that on a grander scale, at least with Blue Star Families, they're really bringing light to military caregivers,

: 15:20

to guess obviously, they were doing that before this report come out, you know, because we do have our Blue Star Families caregiving program that my colleague Vicki oversees, and she does so much. I can't say enough about her and the work that she's doing for our caregivers, but obviously, our research team, our applied research team, being able to work on this and pull this extra data and put a whole new perspective on, you know, that I'm not just a caregiver for my husband, but you know, my two kids have an incurable illness. And for those out there who are wondering what that is, I guess I'll tell you, it's long winded to postural orthostatic, tachycardia syndrome pots for sure. And it's been the debilitating for my son more than my daughter. But you know, thankfully, they're getting the medical care that they need from the Cleveland Clinic for that. And they're not as hindered as they were when it first hit them. But it is something that, you know, I'm my son, and my daughter's caregiver as well. And it is a lot. And I think this what's what's so exciting about this report is it puts that into perspective that sometimes we aren't caring for just one person. And I think that's what's so important.

Jen Amos: 16:33

Yeah. And thank you so much for sharing that. Jerry, I feel like I need to slow down for a little bit. And just thank you for your transparency, because obviously, this is a lot, you know, for your family to be going through and for you to be doing for your family in addition to the advocacy that you're doing. So just thank you again, for just being so candid and transparent about this. Because I think, you know, for someone like me, who hasn't walked in your shoes, like it's easy for me to just kind of ask the questions, almost insensitively. So I just want you to know how appreciative I am that you're willing to just share all this information and your personal life? You know, to us and to our listeners? Oh, well, thank

: 17:09

you. You're welcome. You know what I just I think it's important because there might be other families out there going through the same thing. And, and I just know that, hey, you know what, I'm here. And I'm going through that, and you're not alone. And, you know, if you have questions, reach out to me, if I don't know the answer, maybe we can find the answer together.

Jen Amos: 17:29

Yeah, absolutely genuine, just that I check in with you see if you had any thoughts? Oh,

: 17:33

I mean, on that note, I actually received the same report and have been going through it as well, because you know, caregivers are some of the people that probably need the most mental health care, and because of their caregiving duties are often the last to seek it. So with Coen veterans network, you know, we look at all of those reports very carefully. And as someone who just recently would say, I identify as a caregiver of Mila. I forget they changed the name. Now it's not military caregiver. It's like caregiving of a military family member is what they changed it to in this survey after having pulled all the data. But you know, two of the most interesting pieces to me was that more than a quarter of caregivers and Military Families felt exceedingly birding back caregiving tasks, but did not self identify as caregivers, right? It's fascinating to me that in one way that that is the case, like, how did you not know and also with my own story, I'm like, oh, it took me a really long time to come around to that was probably part of my story. It took me reading like the markers of a caregiver several times, like if you do this, if you do that, if this is something that's part of your daily routine that was like, Oh, so you know, it's both fascinating and a little sad for me to read that there are so many other people out there that are like, I feel exceedingly burdened by this thing that I do on a daily basis, and yet would never ever say that I was a caregiver. And I know that something that's tends to be harder for like the military community to admit, I think it goes back to that, like we are very self reliant and resilient, and we are just going to tackle all the things. And so I appreciate Blue Star Families, you know, putting as much emphasis on finding out like, what's actually going on in caregiving families to bring that to light, you know, and the other thing that came up was that 44% of people are sandwiched like Jerry is and that they're caring for either an older generation and the younger generation or a spouse and a child. And I think that is not part of my story. But you know, I do see it quite often that someone that isn't in a caregiving role is caregiving in multiple ways. Yeah, all very interesting. I realized, while I don't want to be the person that has to coalmining all the data, I do really really enjoy it. It is really neat to.

Jen Amos: 20:03

Yeah, yeah, I think it's very affirming to write when we're able to pull up that data and discuss it.

: 20:09

I was gonna say, you know, I love data. And I think data puts things into perspective, it's eye opening. And so I too appreciate, you know, our applied research team and the time and effort that they took in partnership with those other organizations. I know, I believe the Rosalyn Carter, attitude for Caregiving was on that team. And, you know, I love the collaboration of working together with those other entities and really bringing this to light, and it is really just eye opening. And to be able to see that number, it really is just raising awareness, and, you know, telling a story of Oh, my gosh, you know, look at all these different individuals out there who are going through all these things, and navigating and balancing life while they're doing all this. And you know, it's just really, I'm rambling but awesome to be able to see it. And like Jenny Lynn was saying, checking the boxes, and being able to self identify, I often have those conversations with other folks who are caregivers. And they say, you know what, I didn't realize I didn't did it. And I was that way, when I first became aware of the VA s caregiving program, and I was like, oh, wow, I do do all these things. And for us, I think it's just natural, we just do it. Now we have an official title. There you go. Our work is officially titled, yeah, and supported, and supported.

Jen Amos: 21:37

Yeah, most of all, I know that the definition is so much greater than this. But according to the report, and I would like for all of us to expand upon it, or at least share kind of why you identify as a caregiver and military families. So the report mentions caregivers in military families are defined as a spouse or a service member in a currently serving family, whether that's active duty National Guard and Reserve, who is providing care to an adult or child with special needs. And I know we talked a little bit about this offline, and even in our last episode 56. But there's more to that. Right. And I know Jenny Lynn, when I read that to you, I know that that there's probably more of that definition for you. Yeah,

: 22:11

I mean, one I think defining it is interesting. And I think it shows growth in the military community to say that caring for a child with special needs is a caregiving role, like, defines a caregiver, you know, we have a lot of programs that help toward those things. But it is still something that not everybody even realizes I think that there are programs that support them. So having that as part of the definition of military caregiver, I think really gives voice to the population that does that. In my own story. I think what's fascinating about that is that they actually say active duty, most people think of caregivers as the, you know, the spouse of a veteran who has been medically retired from the military. And my husband's still very much active duty. And, you know, he is started to speak more openly about some of the mental health challenges he had post, you know, 911 service, that's really his story to tell, but being his spouse, watching, you know, those signature post 911, wounds of mtbi, and PTSD play out and our relationship and our family life, and coming alongside him to get him the care he needed. I mean, that's really where it wasn't until I read the definition of a caregiver that I realized that's what I was doing. I thought I was just being a spouse, like, I mean, that was like that, that is also true. But there was so much more than just a traditional spouse role and having to help someone realize that they may be suffering from something and also help them get the care they need.

Jen Amos: 23:55

Hmm, yeah, for sure. Jerry, just curious to get your perspective on the definition as well. And the line for sure.

: 24:02

Yes, and thank you genuine for putting that, you know, into perspective, as far as the active duty. I think that is important. You know, when my husband came home from Operation Iraqi Freedom, he was on stop loss when he came home, and he decided to re enlist, and he did so for a year. But that was a very challenging year, you know, he had to respond to Hurricane Katrina, and that really quit his invisible wounds. You know, he had to take a step back and say, You know what, you know, I'm just really not able to do this. And during that time he was serving, but we realized, and I had to help him identify that, hey, you know, there's some underlying invisible wounds going on here. And we need to work through them. And so even though it wasn't active duty, you know, and it was National Guard based, I think it expands beyond what Jenny Lynn pointed out. It's not just someone like myself, who is a veteran or a caregiver To a veteran, there's a lot of things going on there, whether it be active duty, or Guard or Reserve because these folks come home from wherever they're stationed, or wherever they are serving. And, you know, just because they're on that status doesn't mean that they don't have things that need to be addressed. And I think that's what's so inclusive about this new definition. And this new defining of a caregiver, I think about all those garden reserve folks who were out serving during COVID. And you know, all the different things that those folks have been doing. Last year and a half, since we've all been dealing with this, I'm sure that that has, you know, spawned up something. So this is really encouraging and exciting to see, you know, this change.

: 25:46

But I think it's done in a way to that doesn't denigrate active duty service. Like I think that's been the hesitation for a while to say that active duty service members had caregivers because it somehow meant that they were incapacitated and could not serve. And again, that hasn't been my family's experience, my husband is quite proficient at what he does, and had no reason to be medically retired out. He's really good at what he does. And also he needed people to come along beside him to help him work out the things that needed to be worked out.

: 26:21

Yeah, I love that. I think it's another tool in the box, right? And I think it's just gonna make a difference, right? For those who may be going through something, and they have this added tool to help them be even more successful.

Jen Amos: 26:36

As I listen to you to talk, I'm just happy to know that the military community isn't about like, oh, how much can I do on my own? Or how much can our family do by ourselves? It's like, it's acknowledging where you're at, you know, who you are, and getting help. Right. And so again, the reason why we're talking about this report extensively, and yeah, and caregivers and military families is just knowing and you were saying this earlier, Jerry is that you're not alone. And it gives me a lot of hope, you know, for our community. And, you know, for people who, you know, decide to serve in the military. I want to get your comment on this, Jerry, because one of the things that the report mentioned is that caregivers and Military Families report more financial stress than non caregiver peers. And you and I have been chatting offline, I want to thank you for taking the time to read my husband's book, The modern guide to veteran and military life insurance planning. And you had mentioned in the emails that like, caregivers are extremely undereducated on financial education, let alone long term financial planning. So do you have any thoughts that you would like to share to our listeners about that?

: 27:38

Yeah, you know, one of the things that I often get asked, and that is a big conversation in the caregiver community, in the veteran caregiver community is the fact that life insurance, you know, all these other different things that go along is a very serious topic. And I personally was not aware of that option. Now, you know, my husband exited the military in like, 2006. So, you know, that was obviously some time ago. But over the years, I know that this topic has come up, you know, um, you get this set amount of money, right? You're rated by the VA with a service connected writing, you get a set amount of money. You know, heaven forbid, what if something was to happen with your veteran and they were to pass away? Then you're left with what right? What if? Or what if the bend? You know, what, if this happens, what am I going to do, especially nowadays, our caregivers, veterans are often younger, you know, the Elizabeth Dole Foundation, through their Rand report, identified them as young as 18 years old. So Wow, you have something catastrophic happen to your service member, and you're their caregiver, and they pass away at a young age, and you're just living with this sad amount of money. And you don't have any idea about life insurance, or any of these things, or financial planning and these tools, I know, this is something that is ongoing conversation, and I know folks are starting to address it now. And you know, thank you to your husband for writing that book. Because as I was reading it, I was like, Oh, my gosh, someone's finally talking about this, again, in a different, you know, capacity. I worry about all those caregivers out there who, you know, may not know about this, and I know there's a lot that don't, and the conversation going on about financial planning and financial readiness and being prepared. But sometimes I really just feel like they don't have those tools available to them. Or maybe they're not talking to the right individuals. And then like Jenny Lynn and I were talking some may not even know they are a caregiver.

Jen Amos: 29:51

Mm hmm.

: 29:52

And I know I shared my story with you about, you know, my husband's going through all these things and may have to have open heart surgery. We've started, you know, discussing, you know, what if, you know, he wants me to be prepared. And so it is a really important conversation. So thank you for bringing that to my attention.

Jen Amos: 30:12

Yeah. And thank you for humoring us, you know, and, and reading the book, because we know that it's a delicate dance to talk about money in the military community, because like, there's this impression that you have all these benefits, and you're taking care of and stuff. And for us, we just want to, you know, make sure that we're providing enough education, hence, holding down the fort and why it exists, you know, so that you can make confident and informed decisions in every aspect of your life. And for us, we just happen to talk about it on the financial side. So, you know, to get your perspective as caregiver was just, it was very insightful and touching, and I can't wait to, you know, continue the conversation later, you know, offline, and hopefully, when we meet in person sooner than later, genuine, any thoughts?

: 30:51

That's fascinating conversation to listen to, mostly because it reminded me of by early days, I guess, of caregiving. And, you know, my husband was still active duty. I, however, was unemployed, because we just PCs, and we had two young kids. And, you know, so we were single income family living in an area that was very expensive for a young military family. And, you know, part of our story is that before, we both got the mental health care we needed, we dealt with things by spending a lot of money, you know, it just felt better than sitting at home and being like, What in the world is happening, everybody had all of these feelings, there was, you know, various and sundry, you know, effects from having done back to back deployments and never really living together as a family and mtbi and PTSD. And, you know, we were in an area where there is a lot of fun stuff to do. And our family dealt with that trauma by doing a really fun stuff, which made our Amex bill really, really, you know, and it's something that now we're eight ish years out from there, and we have done the work to recover from all of that, from the mental health issues from the trauma and also from a financial deficit that we were in because we didn't have the other tools we needed to deal with what was going on and spending money felt good. And I know having talked to many other people, military and not, that's a common coping tool. And if you don't have the, you know, I mean, it's a tool just like alcohol or eating, or it's how people deal with stress. I mean, it's real easy to put stuff in Amazon cart and

Jen Amos: 32:48

shopping therapy, right. I mean, they

: 32:52

still look legitimate, like coping thing. Yeah. I won't say it's the healthiest coping thing, but it is a legitimate coping skill, you know, so that is, so being able to prepare, like the military community for those types of things. I mean, it would have benefited us so greatly to have had someone to come along with that is and go, Hey, you guys look like you were just spinning like a top, like here, you know, hear? Oh, yeah.

Jen Amos: 33:19

You know, yeah. Yeah. And well, we'll have a conversation with Scott soon genuine about, he'll tell his story of when he was an officer and what he spent his money on conversation for later, of course, but no, I just I thank you both for indulging and having this conversation with me. Because again, this is sort of what we are working on behind the scenes of holding down the floor. And what I'm doing with my husband is just talking more about long term financial planning for our military community. But anyway, I'm going to digress and go back on topic here. And I just want to thank you for you know, both of you for talking about that topic on financial stress, because we know not even just with, you know, with caregivers, but even just military families in general financial stress is definitely up there in regards to some of the issues that our families face. But I want to go ahead and end on a lighter and positive and happy note, Jerry, you have something to announce as of August 1. Would you like to share with our listeners?

: 34:12

Yes, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So effective August 1, as some of you know, out there I am the 2020 Elizabeth Dole fellow for the state of Ohio, which means that I am serving as the Elizabeth Dole representative for our Ohio military caregivers. One of the things that I really was passionate about getting on my agenda. I had certain things on my agenda as I went through my two year active fellowship. And one of the things on my agenda that I wanted to accomplish was to get Ohio to become a hidden hero state. So I'm happy to report that effective August 1 2021. Governor dewine did go ahead and sign the proclamation to make Ohio the sixth hidden hero state. We is a huge accomplishment for all Ohio military caregivers, it's so important to be able to accomplish that, I'm just really honored to be able to make that happen for our caregivers here in the state, because it's going to raise awareness, it's going to help them identify, it's going to open up more resources for them, you know, to be able to adjust and balance in that role. And so I'm just really honored and thankful. I'm thankful, I cried when I got the phone call, just because it was so special and so meaningful to me. So I'm gonna do that.

Jen Amos: 35:35

Well, congratulations, Jerry, it is a testament to just all of the incredible work that you not only just do for your family, but for your community and for our community as a whole. So just, I probably would have cried with you. If I knew the day, but yeah, I just congratulations. And I'm excited. I'm happy to be in community with you. And to continue to follow your journey. Jerry, genuine. Just want to see if you had any thoughts?

: 36:00

Oh, I just think that's awesome. No one could see me clapping offline or putting my emoji on the screen. So for those of you that couldn't see that that's what was happening behind the scenes.

Jen Amos: 36:10

Yeah, that is wonderful news. And you know, offline, if you want to send me information on that, or any, like a link to that, just so people can learn more, like, feel free to send that over to me. All right. Well, Jerry, this has been so fun catching up with you. I feel like I was actually looking at our last recording was like 3040 minutes. And we actually went a little longer than this one. And I think that's probably what's gonna happen genuine. When I bring past guests, we're probably gonna have longer conversations, which I'm not complaining about. I do enjoy them. But before we go, Jerry, any final thoughts?

: 36:39

Yeah. So I just wanted to point out that, obviously, we were talking about the financial piece, and I just wanted to say, you know, you start families, we do do our annual military family lifestyle survey and financial concerns, financial challenges is always at the top. So I just want to thank you and your husband, and everything that you do to help in that capacity, because it is really important work. And I just want to let you know, thank you to both of you for you know what you do to help put things in perspective, and I will do my best to not do shopping. self care.

Unknown Speaker: 37:20

Yeah, that's,

Jen Amos: 37:21

that's one good financial tip. Just don't spend when you're emotional. Yes.

: 37:26

Don't do that. Don't do that. But no impulse mine. Yeah, thank you so much for having me on. Again, I adore you both. And I'm just so grateful to have you as part of my community as well. And thanks for all the hard work that you do. Thank you, Jenny, for all that you do at the Cohen clinic. You know, it's such great work, and it's so appreciative. So thank you. Thank you.

Jen Amos: 37:49

Wow, well, just love all around. Thank you, Jerry, for those wonderful loving, closing thoughts. And yeah, I think there's a mutual understanding amongst all of us here that we appreciate everyone for the good work that we're doing. So kudos, everyone. Yeah. All right. Well, I'm gonna go ahead and wrap up here. I want to thank you to our listeners, again, for joining us. We hope that this conversation really struck a chord with you and hopefully you'll take the time to learn more about me make sure I say the term correctly now are the new term that way they phrase it, you know, if you want to learn more about caregiving in military families and find out if you actually are a caregiver, right, and of course, Jenny Lynn, thank you for co hosting with me as always, happy to and yeah, with that said, we appreciate all of you and we'll chat with you in the next episode. Tune in next time.