130: "Holding Down the Fort has been a really great opportunity and invitation to show up for each other." Season 5 Finale with Jen Amos and Jenny Lynne Stroup

Jen Amos 0:00

All right. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the season five finale of the award winning podcast show holding down the fort. I am your Creator and co host Jen aImost. And as always, I have my amazing co host with me, Jenny Lynch troupe, Jenny Lynn, welcome back to the season finale of season five.

Speaker 1 0:16

Oh my gosh, season finale. So glad to be here. And so odd to have it already wrapping up. I feel like we just started.

Jen Amos 0:24

verage, we would release like: 2425

Speaker 1 1:00

It made for some really busy Tuesdays and Thursdays for me, which was a lot of fun. I mean, I love there are two things we stress more on the show than community and mental health. And for me, like, you know, just continuing to meet people who are doing such awesome things for community that I love so much has been so much fun, so much fun, and so good for my mental health to just be air quotes around people, like you know, and meet new people, I realize how much I thrive on that community. It's funny a couple weeks ago, I flew back to San Diego for work. That was like in my clinic with all of our people. And our clinic director and I stopped in the hallway and had a conversation and she was like, chillin, I was like what is happening, and I was like, I'm in person with real people. And she was like, your energy level is like way up here. And I was like, I just really liked to be around people. And then also, I really liked my quiet time. It was nice to go back hotel and be all by myself. But while I was there, I just really, really enjoyed like being around everybody.

Jen Amos 2:07

Yeah, absolutely. I think especially for me, as someone who's coming back to Hampton Roads, like one thing I'm looking forward to is just like being around people again. And I'm trying to recall the last time, like the last time I was around other people other than my family. Actually, that was the last time we went to male spouse fest when I was with you, and Heather. And yeah, I just remember like, kind of like the weird awkwardness of being around people, but also like the comfort in it as well. It's like, oh, like, I know that everyone else is feeling weird about this. But we're all here anyway. And you know, just to kind of know that your physical community with people because I know you and I often talk about community and throughout pretty much the majority of this season, it's been virtual, to actually be physically community with people. It's like, you have like a deeper appreciation for it. I think at least I did in coming out to Mills spouse fest.

Speaker 1 2:57

Oh, for sure. I mean, and that's what I really noticed about going back to San Diego and being in the office was like, Oh, I really do thrive on the energy of being actually in person with other people like and I forget that. I mean, I work from home, and we right now do this podcast all virtually, hopefully soon that will change. But you know, just, I forget how much I really, really enjoy that. And so it was just such a nice reminder. And I'm looking forward to you know, our upcoming season where you and I will be in person probably more for recording and possibly have some of our guests in person two, Toby's? Yeah, for fun.

Jen Amos 3:39

Yeah. And even just to hang out, you know, like for those days where you don't have your kids and you have your alone time, and you're like, you just hit me up. You're like, Jen, what are you doing? Because, you know, I don't have kids yet. So, you know, I'll you know, I'll be around for the most part. But yeah, and so speaking of which, like in talks about being around people and all the stories that we have done this season alone, I want to remind our listeners our background in regards to how we are connected to the military community. And in addition to that, like, the question I have, with our background is, is there anything new you've learned about yourself in this season because of the people we interacted with? So I'll go first, you know, so as a Goldstar daughter and a veteran spouse this season has been extremely validating for me, one of my favorite interviews, as of late was actually with Charmaine, who was also a fellow military kid, and it was just so nice to feel seen by her to know that like, Oh, I'm not the only one that you know, most people would consider quote, unquote, scatterbrained or always trying to change your career or whatever. It's like it was built into us as a military child. And so, you know, I think this is really the season that made me feel like I'm at home with the community despite how I first started the show as a gold star daughter and feeling this weird imposter syndrome of like wanting to start a community or starting a show that's focused on military families. So I feel like this season, like I said, has really made me feel that way. Like, you know, I'm home now like, This is my place like I am a value here, I can give value, I have resources for our community. And I can get a lot out of it as well, because I'm allowed to like I've been a part of the space, even though I didn't feel that way for the last 20 years. So I'd say that's the biggest thing as a gold star daughter and a veteran spouse that I got it from this season. And so as an active duty military spouse, gentlemen, I thought I'd ask you the same question like any revelations of that you gained from this season.

Speaker 1 5:27

I mean, I think for me, a lot of our interviews have been with other active duty spouses, or recently transitioned spouses. You know, what I learned in this season, or really, what was reiterated to me is one, how fortunate I've been as an active duty spouse to have had the connections and the mentorship that I have, pretty much since I married into military life. And the second thing is just how much that means to me, especially in being able to give it back like I think about, and we've had a few quite young in their military experience spouses on and to hear their horror stories of like how the military lifestyle did not so much embrace them, you know, renews in me like an ability to go, Yeah, and this is why we do this podcast, because not every experience is like that. And again, I come from a very, very fortunate viewpoint of having excellent mentorship and really great relationships. And because of that, you know, feel really passionate about, you know, talking to some of our guests, both online, recorded and offline about, Hey, and if you need something, please let me know, like, and it's just that constant relationship and community building, that that, again, was reiterated in this season. You know, season four, we had a lot of Jenny Lin's friends on that should be like, if we themed our seasons, like Season Four was anyone's friends, like, yeah, no. And this season, we really had a bunch of people that were new to me. Yeah. And so to feel that same community and connection and like, reminder, and push for mentorship was really, really good.

Jen Amos 7:25

Yeah, there's definitely some past guests that I feel like I know which ones you're talking about, where they didn't have necessarily the best experience with the community, and like the male spouse, community, and how rough it was for them. And it is really interesting to find that everyone experiences the military community differently. And that's why I feel so fortunate to highlight all of these stories. And I actually think when you first brought that up, when you came to that realization that like, you really had essentially a good start in your military career, or as a military spouse, like, that sort of was a lightbulb moment for me as well. Because, you know, I think about myself how, when I first started the show, it's like, I, part of the reason why I had the imposter syndrome is because I wasn't connected. You know, I didn't know anyone that was actively in the community that, you know, was actively involved in giving back in the way that Scott and I are doing. But because of all these conversations, I've been able to build that. And therefore I've been able to build my confidence and my love, really for the community again, and then also just thinking about, and so yeah, that's just what it gets me to think about, and also how grateful I am to be co hosting with you. Because, you know, I think we talked about this in one of our recent episodes where like, because you grew up like you were born and raised in, you know, in Hampton Roads, and your kids, you know, had to live that transient military kid life like you were able to establish that home. And that sense of community for your kids. And so, you know, just to have our different perspectives and experiences on the show, I think allows us and our guests to be able to share, you know, the variety of stories that we've been able to witness on the show, and I'm really grateful for that.

Unknown Speaker 9:01

Oh, same. Yeah.

Jen Amos 9:04

And on that note, yeah, it's been really wonderful. And so I feel excited, first and foremost, to, in a sense, be coming back home to Hampton Roads, and to really take the show to the next level in regards to, like you said earlier, hopefully interviewing more people in person and really seeing, you know, the community that we built here manifest physically, like in person because we've been doing all this virtually. Yeah,

Speaker 1 9:29

you know, and for me, like being back home, and you know, it's funny, I was talking to somebody the other day, and I had this or we've been here about six months. And I had this realization of like, where we live and like what our daily life is like, does not really match the picture I have in my head when we like, knew we were coming back. And some of that was intentional, in that we intentionally moved closer to base than we'd ever live so that Matthew didn't have such a long commute. And some of that's been completely unintentional, just in that we're in a brand new, like, we kind of have the best of both worlds where we live now, because I'm coming to a place that I am intimately familiar with, because I grew up here. Yeah, so I live in the town where the good mall was until it wasn't somewhere that I was all the time. And so there's still that like, spark of like, let me find the grocery store, like all the new like, yeah, you know, and the exploration that comes with a new military move. And I have loved it, like being in a place that is both rooted and grounded in where I'm from, and also the new. It's been a lot of fun. And I've really, really enjoyed that quite a bit. Like more than I anticipated. Yeah, I knew I was going to like coming back home for many ways. And I like it for like different reasons than I thought I would.

Jen Amos: 11:03

Yeah, I think that's awesome. It's like you're coming back home. But you also can still have that feeling of adventure, because you're not going exactly back to where you were born and raised. You know, that reminds me of when I visited California back in August. And rather than stay somewhere in San Diego, like I normally would, where my family and friends are, I went to Palm Springs. And it was fun. Like it was so fun to be able to like do that two hour commute to San Diego because I like never commute like I mean, I am grateful that I don't have to commute for work, but like to just do that and see California in a different perspective. But also like It's like it felt like home. But also it was an adventure because I was in a different part of Southern California, when you share your story that reminds me of how I felt when I came back to my I wouldn't say original home, but basically one of my longer term homes of yours. It was basically my home, I was there for 20 years. Yeah, it's great. And you know, we're talking a little bit about this offline. But you know, even before we started recording, like, I'm feeling a lot more calm than I have pretty much this entire season. And you know, you've been with me, you've seen how much coffee I drink every time we do this. But I think it because you know, at the time that we're releasing this, it is the holiday season, you know, and you know, I know where my next home is going to be. And you finally feel settled in in Hampton Roads. And I don't know, I guess I just want to capture this moment and really appreciate like, how we're winding down from the season, and now we're entering the holiday season and just being able to, I don't know, like, reflect and appreciate the craziness of 2020 and 2021. Yeah, I mean, I still feel like we're feeling the ramifications of 2020 To be honest, but at least I feel like something about like, the end of the year in December. And maybe it's because it's also my birthday month, I don't know. But I feel relaxed, I feel relaxed, I feel at peace, I feel grateful for, you know, all the things that we've done, especially here on hold now the Fords.

: 12:51

You know, it's funny, like we are winding down season five. And yet in many ways I and I think is true kind of across the different areas in my life. Like there is a sense of winding down and like of this cozy and home like a homes all decorated. We're finally not doing renovations, like my home is actually mine. And it feels like me. Also, this is the time of year I already start looking toward the next and maybe that's something I need to work on with my therapist about. There's very little, little time to settle. But I mean, similarly like, yeah, Season Five was a lot of fun and a lot like, even in the hard there was something to be learned. And that looking back on, you know, I'm just really grateful for and also looking forward to in season six.

Jen Amos: 13:46

Yeah, absolutely. So I wanted to ask us the question that we often ask our guests when I remember it, which is we pretend

: 13:53

like it's the question we're going to ask everyone. Yeah, season six coming to a season.

Jen Amos: 13:58

It's so it's so funny, because some of our guests are more prepared than we are. And they'll say, oh, like in the guest application, you had asked me what it meant to hold down the fort. And I was like, Oh, yes, yes, yes, we did include that. Yeah. So what do you think? What does that? What does it mean for you? So I thought I'd ask us Jennylyn in wrapping up this season. I'm curious what holding down the fort means to you now. And I'll go first just to kind of get your wheels rolling. You know, for me holding down the fort has actually been podcasting. Like when I think of holding down the fort, I think about podcasting mainly because before our conversation, I actually counted how many states I've been in in the last couple of months. Okay, so I've been in like California, Tennessee, Nevada, Arizona, Virginia, Ohio and West Virginia. That's a lot of states to be living in in the last couple of months and feeling uprooted. And yet throughout that whole time, I have had hold on before I have had this podcast show make me feel grounded and still connected with the community. So like it took me until this very moment to realize really like what holding down the fort has meant to me and if This podcast. So shameless plug I know. But it's really been this podcast to be able to know that we have something on the calendar that I look forward to speaking with you. And I look forward to speaking to people we bring back or new people. And so that's what it means for me. So I thought I'd ask you the same question to anyone. As you wrap up, what is holding down the fort mean for you now,

: 15:18

you know, in many ways, its definition for me hasn't changed. I am an active duty military spouse whose husband is on CBD. And you know, a lot of holding down the fort is that physical, holding down the Florida of my house, I am all things to all people here, work full time, you know, renovations on the house. And so a lot of it is that physical and mental capacity to make sure things are on track and to make sure that my people, my boys are well taken care of, and feel a sense of like, safety and security. Yeah, you know, from, like, a professional standpoint, holding down the fort for me very much like you. I mean, it is very fun for me to say to people that I am a co hosts on this show, because of what this show has brought to my life, like that extra bit of community that I've only met because of this show. And you know, the requirement, and that's not necessarily the right word, but like the, the opportunity, I guess, to show up on the days that we record, you know, has really been a great invitation to me to like, be involved. Yeah, you know, professionally, holding down the fort. I think a lot like you has been just a really great invitation to show up. And I think that's a great definition of holding down the fort. Like it's showing up. It's showing up for the people that we interview, it's showing up for each other. I mean, you know, it's great fun to connect with you. And you know, even on days, we just hop on just to talk about life and sometimes work.

Unknown Speaker: 17:05

Our brainstorming sessions, the brainstorming

: 17:07

sessions that are usually like so did you drink coffee today? Yeah, you know, I think all of that, like, I love that holding down the fort has multiple meanings. And I love that we ask our guests that question coming in season six, we'll do it all the time. Yeah, when

Unknown Speaker: 17:24

added to the checklist that I was seem to lose,

: 17:27

you know, but like that it does have multiple meanings, multiple people. And even for me, like it physically is like the thing that I do on a day in and day out basis. And also, it's an opportunity and an invitation to show up. And I think that's the best we can be asked to do like for each other

Jen Amos: 17:45

is to show up. I like that I like how you say show up because when I reflect on my travels, and just the last like six months, my unexpected travels, by the way, like it was this was all like unexpected. So some people are like, Oh, that's so cool. You traveled like No, it really was really difficult, trust me, like to have find the time to like, actually record quality audio, which has just varied throughout the times. And it's funny when you know, Dennis is like, Hey, you sound different here, you sound different there. I was like, and all the times like genuine no joke that I have tried. Like when I do like individual recordings, like I'll go in my car, I'll be under a blanket, I'll surround myself with pillows, like there's been a lot of creative ways for me to actually have like quality audio when I really need it. But I just say about all that because it's like, I love how I didn't let that be an excuse to not show up. And, and part of why I show up is because of how our guests show up. You know, I think about Jayla Ray, for example, who was having a bad day, essentially, literally, like it was like the day after she had this whole breakdown with her husband. And yet she showed up anyway, you know, and she has a podcast where she talks about her struggles, you know, being in the middle of a deployment. It's like, if you can show up for me and not show up first and that way, like I have no excuse, but to show up. Right. And I think that is the beauty of community that is the spirit of community is like, we show up for each other to show that like, Hey, we're human, we're imperfect, and it's okay. Like it's okay. And you were allowed to be encouraged and supported and validated for this journey that we're going through. So I just love that you said show up I completely 100% agree with you on that.

Unknown Speaker: 19:20

You know, sometimes I have good words.

Jen Amos: 19:23

Usually do though. Awesome. Well, you know, I don't mean to like stretch out this conversation, but it is the season five finale, you know, so as we close up this conversation, and as we all know, as are actually gonna say again, thank you, Dennis. You're amazing. You're amazing. You should hear all the times I stutter.

: 19:41

Like that's one of our lessons is that we learned to say thank you, instead of I'm sorry.

Jen Amos: 19:47

Yeah, let's talk about that real quick. So I do want to take this moment to thank our editor Dennis. Actually what you all don't get a chance to hear is when we quote unquote make a mistake, rather than sorry, we have learned to say thank you because cuz obviously, he appreciates, you know, having the work to be an editor be the editor that he is. And so rather than apologize, it's like Thank you, Dennis for doing your job, right. And I remember Daniel and you and I had a text message conversation about this about, like the benefits of saying thank you rather than sorry. And I'd love for you to share with our audience and kind of what we learned in that experience.

: 20:20

Yeah, I forget what like, what the impetus was for that. But I mean, it was, it was something that that I didn't, you know, learn from this season was that when you continue to show up and say, I'm sorry, it's like, the negative side of being human, I don't really know how else to put that, like, you're just the constant apologizing isn't good for your own, like self esteem. I'm pretty sure it was another podcast, you know, I for as much as we show up and record this one, I probably listened to three times the amount of podcasts I record. None of those being my own voice. I listened to other people. So, you know, one of the things that I learned was that we have a real like, yeah, like an apology culture, and it just kind of feeds the not best version of ourselves. Are there times that an apology is necessary? Absolute, like, please don't hear me say Don't ever say sorry. Like, there are absolutely times yeah, you say that. But when you're saying in a way that it's like just this constant, like, I'm so sorry, I'm late. I'm so sorry for this, oh, it's not that genuine, like I actually did something to harm you. It just kind of feeds this culture of like never being enough. And you know, all of the things. And so what I learned in listening to that was that a better turn around is instead of saying like, I'm sorry for being late, you say thank you for being flexible. And that turned around, you know, I mean, it's something we talk about mental health on here all the time. Like, it's learning those turnarounds that allow you to see like, the good in the day, and the good in the person and the gratitude. And so, you know, we had this text thread about, like, how this season, we shifted from constantly apologizing to Dennis, every time we call or take a sip of water or, you know, messed up our words, that we said, Thank you, Dennis. And I think it's something you know that you and I are supporting each other and doing that. And that has helped me then take it into light. And I also the texture, I'd realized, for everyone listening, there's a, you know, an episode out there where I appear on for about five seconds, and then had to totally bail because of something happening in my house. Yeah. And, you know, I sent Jen a text that said, you know, thank you so much for allowing me the space to do what I needed to do. Like, yeah, I love showing up for this podcast. But that day, I could not show up fully because of all of the things going on in my house that were out of my control. And being offered that flexibility and grace, like, is worthy of Thank you, versus apologizing for capacity. Because it wasn't anything I could have changed.

Jen Amos: 23:12

Exactly. I love that you bring that up. Because I think that when people say, and this is coming from the perspective of someone who was sort of like the collateral damage of that, you know, circumstance, for example. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's a really intense way to describe it. But for lack of better term, I'm going to go there. So from someone like me, I love it when people say thank you, rather than sorry, because I feel like when people say sorry, it almost minimizes Well, first of all, it makes you feel bad, right? Like the person that saying, I'm sorry, but secondly, it like, dismisses what the other person did for you, in a sense, you know, it's like, like you're making it about you, in a sense, when you say I'm sorry, but when you say thank you, thank you for your flexibility, thank you for, you know, continuing the interview without me, for example, like, it validates me it saying like, Oh, you acknowledge that I was able, like, you acknowledge I was able to carry this on, you know, you acknowledge that, like, I held down the fort, you know, well, you had to hold down the fort in your own way and your personal life. And, and I think that's why, you know, I never really thought about that way. But that's part of like, what we say to ourselves, and how we say to, you know, the language we use with other people, like says a lot about us language says a lot about us. And if we can say thank you, like, you know, thank you for your patience. Thank you for your flexibility. Thank you for this. It really just, in my opinion, it validates the person acknowledges them for, like, their willingness to, you know, create that space for you to have had to, you know, jump off five minutes after being on you know, which by the way, that was a great interview. So, it's really cool. And she's a local, so maybe we'll hang out with her anyway, we'll make up for it. There we go. So shout out to Maria Victoria. That was a conversation where you had to jump off early. But yeah, that's what comes to mind. And so I think that's a fun lesson to share on the show because I think a lot of our community it is very easy. and quick to apologize. Sorry for the sorry for that. Sorry, I couldn't make it sorry, my kids, you know, yeah, etc, etc. And I think that again, if there's anything that this community has taught me is to just give grace like to know that we don't intend to show up late, we don't intend to, you know, drop everything, because, you know, you have to deal with some renovations in your house. Like, we don't intend to be awful people. And so therefore, it's like, I've learned to give people the benefit of the doubt and to, you know, see the good in them and to think to myself, Oh, maybe something went on that serious, and I hope that they're okay. And you know, honestly, that's something I learned in the East Coast versus the west coast to be quite honest. That's a conversation for another time. But just just that extra level of grace and understanding and patience is great. And so I'm glad genuine that like you and I kind of came to that realization together. And I look forward to continuing that spirit in season six.

: 25:52

Oh, for sure. Like, yeah, and you know, the more that we talked about this today, the more I'm reminded of like, oh, yeah, that is a solid lesson coming out of this season. Yeah, that applies to way more than how much we think Dennis on the show. And please hear me, dear listener, like it is a lot. We think that you guys listen to the best version of so

Jen Amos: 26:15

yeah, I mean, if you can count all the times that we said, Thank you, Dennis. Like, oh my gosh, like, I don't know. Yeah, like they say like a few. I don't know, the phrase, like if you give me a penny for every time we say thank you, Dennis, once you have a million bucks. Yeah. Correct. And yeah, it's wonderful. And I'm appreciative that this community has brought that out in me and brought that out in you to just continue to give each other grace and to trust that people are trying to do their best to try to hold on for, you know, the day to day operations of just existing in this military life.

: 26:43

And let's be honest, in this community, I mean, you touched on it a little bit a second ago. But like, think about the opportunity we have as military and veteran connected people to offer that grace and space. Because let me tell you, every day, how many opportunities, I have to apologize for this, that or the other two didn't go how I thought it was going to go, because rarely does military life, ever go the way that you think it's going to go. And so to come away with that lesson, you know, from this podcast, but to be able to apply it on a grander scale, especially within a community that lives in near constant transition, like what a gift.

Jen Amos: 27:31

Yeah, I agree with you, 100%. And I'm so glad that that is one of the amazing traits that we have gained, you know, from this community. Dennis, you can clean it up. Thank you. So shout out to Dennis really, this was a big like, Thank you, Dennis. So please don't edit this out. He does that too. Sometimes. Sometimes he like he does when we compliment him because he likes to be a very much behind the scenes kind of guy. But all that being said, Yeah, I think this is a great way to wrap up season five of holding down the fort. Genuine, it's been an absolute pleasure co hosting with you. And of course, for people that want to still continue to follow us. If you want to follow me in the work that I'm doing with my husband. We do have a new podcast show called The spouse benefit plan. And it's all about educating career military families on making informed and confident decisions on how to keep or opt out of the Survivor Benefit Plan. So there's already a trailer Episode and Episode one out. And so if you want to learn more about it, feel free to check out the spouse benefit plan.com That is something I'll be working on the offseason. Jennylyn let people know what are you up to in the offseason? And how people can find you?

: 28:34

Oh, man, offseason is there everyone, I'm not sure. In the offseason, I'm still working my full time job. And also working on a few personal projects that have kind of been buried for a while that have some new life in them, which I'm super excited about. And you know, just enjoying really, really enjoying being back home like that. I can't overstate that enough. I'm really enjoying being back where I'm from, and the ability to spend time with people that I love, you know, especially the holidays, like we had a great Thanksgiving with extended family that I haven't seen in ages. And it just was very heartwarming to watch my boys with people we're related to like, don't get me wrong, we have some excellent military family. Excellent. Like them, we'll always love them. And if we're ever stationed together, we'll probably live next door to one another but like and also, it has been a real gift to be back in my hometown area and be able to do the things that I did as a kid and have my kids be able to do that too. So in the offseason, I'm really going to be enjoying some of those type things.

Jen Amos: 29:56

Yeah, I love that. Well, yay, yeah. Again, thank you, Jalen just being a part of this journey with me. And I'm excited to see what season six will look like. Of course, in case anyone's wondering when we're going to come back, just like last season, I don't know yet so. So make sure you plug into our newsletter 22

Unknown Speaker: 30:15

will be back in 2022. Yeah, sometime there, we

Jen Amos: 30:18

got like a good like year range to figure it out. But more importantly, we encourage you to subscribe to our newsletter and follow us via social media, which you can find out our website holding on the fourth podcast.com to get the latest updates of when we're going to be returning. In the meantime, it's been fun to be working with our team to push out like the episodes via social media lately of the last season. So it's been fun to like kind of see the earlier episodes be up and kind of reflect like, oh, yeah, we have that conversation. So it's been fun to experience that. But like I said, Hold down the fort podcast calm can find Jennylyn and I's contact information on there. And also subscribe to our newsletters that you know when season six is going to return. Until then, happy holidays, have fun, enjoy some time with your family, whether it's virtually or physically or however you're going to do that this year. And remember, we do have an episode where we do talk specifically about how to set your expectations for the holidays. That was episode 122 That was released on November 15. And this was with Dr. Leah Blaine and Joanna Goldstein. And here they talk about you know how to manage your holiday expectations. So check that out, in case you haven't already. And with that said, thank you all so much for listening, gentlemen, any quick closing thoughts before we go?

Unknown Speaker: 31:26

See you all in 2022?

Jen Amos: 31:28

Yes, see you all in 2022. Thank you so much, and we'll chat with you next year. Tune in next year. Goodbye.