021: “You know, a day job just doesn’t look like it’s going to happen.” Web designing for women entrepreneurs and military spouses with Lily Dagdag

Jen Amos 0:00

Welcome, and thanks for joining us for another episode of holding down the fort, a podcast show where we put military spouses and children's needs front and center so that they can make informed decisions together as a family, because let's face it, we know who's really holding down the fort. I'm Jenny most a veteran spouse and Goldstar daughter, and your host for today's show. Let's get started.

All right. Hi everyone. Jen amo is here with holding down the fort podcast show. And I am excited because every time I get to do a show, it means that I get to interview another incredible person in our military community. I'd like to introduce you all to Lily DAG, dag. So Lily is a military spouse and website designer for women entrepreneurs and military spouses. For the past six years, she has been working with WordPress to design websites for businesses. She is also working on a graphic design degree to expand her skills in branding and print marketing. Fun fact, Lily has a twin sister Patricia, who also shares her mad tech skills. Together, they created a site biz, a website designed business serving women entrepreneurs, they also created operation site launch a branch of their company that is focused specifically on helping the military community. Lily, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Yeah, it's my absolute pleasure. Why don't we start with you sharing? How did you hear about our show? And more importantly, why did you feel compelled to joining us today?

Speaker 1 1:35

So I recently attended the military influencer conference, which was amazing. And I saw Jen's profile. And I was like, Hey, she looks interesting. And I also realized she had a podcast, which I've been hoping to, you know, go on more podcasts to kind of kill two birds in one stone there, especially anything related to military, I'm always happy to share my knowledge and hopefully, you know, cut some of that trial and error out for other military spouses who may be trying to run or grow their own business.

Jen Amos 2:05

Yeah, absolutely. What was your favorite part of military influencer conference,

Speaker 1 2:11

it was needing all of the people that I've actually known for a long time online, but never saw in person. So it's really interesting. A lot of my LinkedIn contacts were actually at that conference, when I kept recognizing people. And it's really fun. Because, you know, most of my business is online, I don't really have very many local clients, my clients are all over the country and all over the world. So to be able to kind of connect faces with people that I've been talking to online, it was a really fun thing to do.

Jen Amos 2:41

Yeah, I agree with you. When my husband and I went there. Yeah, we saw a lot of a lot of our LinkedIn contacts as well, actually in person. We're like, oh, like, you're a lot taller than I thought you were, you know, it was like seeing people in the flesh. And, you know, just making jokes like, yes, we're real. We're real human being good to see you in person. Finally, yeah, I think that's a the best part of attending conferences like that is really the, you know, the social proof or the validation that, you know, someone is alive and kickin, and people, such as yourself, have the opportunity to build an online business, as many military spouses and people in our community have adapted to because of the lifestyle. Absolutely. Yeah. So with that said, You did kind of hint that you don't have a lot of local contacts, or a lot of local clients, you do things online most of the time. So for people that are getting to know you for the first time, Lily, why don't you share a snapshot of your life maybe like what keeps you most excited and busy about life nowadays?

Speaker 1 3:42

So my life is very busy. It has our most entrepreneurs, slash students slash moms slash caregiver, I have a lot of slashes in my life. Where you know, my morning starts because my children are in three different schools. So I have three different schedules. My first task is just to get them out of the door. Then, of course, I can at least find have a few good hours to spend on my business. My sister and I, even though we live in the same area, she lives a little bit further now. So we tend to work digitally most days. And then I try to get my workout in most days. Some days I do some days I don't. But then before you know it, the kids are back home from school again. And it's back to the same thing as ever.

Jen Amos 4:28

Yeah, I think it's so cool. First of all, that you have a twin sister and secondly, you to work together.

Speaker 1 4:36

Yeah, it has it's good and it's bad. You know, I would say that the best part though, is that I hear from a lot of entrepreneurs that being an online business owner can be very lonely because you're in your office, home you know, I at least have one built in person to talk to if not anybody.

Jen Amos 4:56

Right, she's like obligated to speak with you because she's your sister. So there you go. I love that. How long have you been working together? And when did you decide it was a good time to partner up?

Speaker 1 5:10

So we actually started our first business. 10 years ago, this August, my husband was in Korea. And even though it only been about two and a half years, since we got married, I had already moved like three or four times. And I was like, you know, a day job just doesn't look like it's gonna happen. My twin sister had actually coming out of college, she started working for a big company. And after less than a year, maybe she already felt burnt out. So she was like, that's really not going to work her either. And we decided, hey, why don't we just go into business together, that'll work out, I'm sure. And so, since then, we've kind of gone through a lot of different transitions. But the biggest one was six years ago, when we finally became website designers like full time. And that's just what we've been going with ever since. Wow,

Jen Amos 6:01

that's really awesome. I have a younger sister, she's five years younger than me. And it's always a secretly I try not to force this on her. But it's always kind of been my dream to do something with her, you know, to build a business with her or, you know, have a project together or what have you. So I feel like I'm kind of living vicariously through your relationship with your sister right now. And the good work that you two are doing together. Yeah. And I mean,

Speaker 1 6:25

it's got its challenges. Sure. But I would say that overall, we've done pretty well, we kind of drawing lines between business and personal so that we don't have too many problems that, you know, we wouldn't have if we weren't related.

Jen Amos 6:41

Yes, it's very important to build to set healthy boundaries. My husband and I, we work together as well. And we work at home. And even at home, like I have, I'm doing this interview, like in our home office, and he's typically like in the living room, and he knows, like, this is my space, you know, I mean, we're still working on separating like our professional lives from our personal lives. He thinks it's all mixed up, and it's all okay, you know, to mesh it all together. So yeah, I'm still I feel like that's something I still need to work on. And we're still figuring out as we go. Yeah. Awesome. I love it. Well, you speaking of which, let's go ahead and talk about the work that you and your sister Patricia do, which is web design. Now, how did you fall into that? Like, how did you decide that web design was going to be something you'd focus on? And then I want to get into WordPress specifically, as well after that, because I'm curious to know why you chose that as like your preferred medium?

Speaker 1 7:35

ites, stuff like that. But in: 2013

Jen Amos 8:31

Hmm. Awesome. Very cool. So let's talk about, you know, having a website as a tool for your business. You know, some people, they choose to, let's say, market their business on social media, and that seems to work pretty well for them. Or some people maybe stick to email, or maybe just the in person stuff. You know, some people are just they just love going to local networking events and handing out their business cards. So why do you think a website is so important for businesses today?

Speaker 1 9:00

Well, I definitely think that a website is an important part of your business simply because it's expected that you'll have one. To some extent, people may not see you as professional if you don't have one. I was actually speaking to Joseph. I don't want to miss pronounce his last name from Nova point consulting when we were at MC. And he said that somebody asked him, what's your website? He was like, they didn't care if I had an office or anything else. All they wanted to know, did I have a website and I said, you know that that is pretty common, especially because even outside of the importance of having a website, social media changes daily, just in the time I've been a business owner in the past six years, you know, Facebook as a third got its own transitions and LinkedIn is changing every day. It's hard to keep up with those things and you only have but so much control. You know, Facebook, specifically, some people have a hard time with getting reach under pages. I mean, some people do a great job some people Can't. And it's just you have so much more control over your website, you have control over the branding and what you do and how you get traffic there. But you don't necessarily get with social media unless you pay a ton of money.

Jen Amos: 10:11

Right? Oh, yeah. Especially with the paid advertising. Exactly. Yeah, you know, I feel like the best way to describe social media versus a website is social media is a place you pay for rent, you know, it's kind of temporary, you're kind of at the mercy of the landlord, the landlord, being the owners of, you know, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram. And at any given moment, just like what you said, they can change the rules, they can change the algorithms. And so with a website, it's like owning a house, where like you call the shots, for the most part, you get to decide, am I going to paint my walls? Am I going to, you know, renovate my kitchen? And like, you have more control of that. And like how you invite people into your house, for example, and everything. So yeah, I definitely see the value in having a website done. That's kind of been our priority with my husband and I, with our company at US bet wealth. We've been working strenuously getting our website up and running, because we know at the end of the day, that's the thing that we're going to be able to control and be able to like capture emails without other social media websites may do like still matter. No, I don't know if they would like steal data, but we just have more control. As you said, I'm having our own website.

: 11:22

Right. Although I do think it's important for people to realize that even the best website in the world with no traffic does nothing for you. That's why we use a combination of social media and our website to get most of our clients. Eventually, we will use paid advertising, sure. But right now we're focusing on literally just meeting people and then sending people directly to our website. And those people are more likely to sign with us because they know exactly who we are. And they're warm leads. They're not just random people coming onto our website from Google.

Jen Amos: 11:57

Yeah, yeah. I think social media ties into what you do in person. Like it's it's really a networking platform, you know, it's a place to meet up and make new contacts. But ultimately, you want to invite them home, you know, or to your office, which in this case, your your digital office is really your website. Right?

Unknown Speaker: 12:14

That's absolutely right.

Jen Amos: 12:15

Yeah, I love that. So let's say people already have a website. Are there any things that like, Have you worked with clients where you look at their site? And you're like, now we have to redo that? Have you ever had those kinds of occasions? And if you do, what do you feel like are the common mistakes? You know, or things that you see that could be better improved on someone's website? All right. Hi, everyone. Just jumping in for a quick moment here to talk about our major sponsor for our podcast show holding down the fort, which is us vet wealth. And I'm actually pretty excited because one of our colleagues a shout out to Ethan Samuels actually did an ad commercial for us. So even if you are not interested in anything we have to offer I hope that you just listened to this ad commercial because of how amazing he sounds. Alright, here we go.

: 13:06

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: 14:06

That definitely has happened. And I've yet to find a nice way to say to people. People are proud of their work. They're really proud of it. And in my design classes now I think one of the best things that we've learned is being able to rationalize why you're saying certain things like certain design choices that way, when you have to explain it to your client, they don't get insulted because they're you're not the sound of their website is ugly. You're telling them this isn't working for this reason, or that or this could be improved for this reason, and it's just a much easier way for them to hear you rather than just hearing it as criticisms. But overall, I would definitely say the top mistakes I've seen is one not considering your target market. It doesn't matter if you like bright neon colors if your target market doesn't. And I think too many people kind of build their website based on what they want, and not thinking about what their client wants, and that is obviously a huge mistake. Another one is not telling people immediately who you are and what you do, they should be able to tell that as soon as they land on your website, who are you, what do you do and who do do it for, because if they have to look for too long, they're gonna leave. Yeah, to try and figure that out. And then also not telling people what you want them to do, or telling them to do too many things. Like if I land on your website, and your homepage, unless you have a shop, obviously, your homepage has like a million different places for me to click, instead of picking, I'm just going to leave. So you should generally have one call to action. one specific thing for people to do on most pages may be to if you have like an opt in form, and then a call to action to maybe schedule a call with you. Anytime you're trying to design a website or build a website, you need to think about your audience more than you. And you need to think about how your audience is going to use your website and view your website and build based on that. And I think that that's a piece a lot of people are missing. Hmm,

Jen Amos: 16:09

yeah, I think I heard this quote, the phrase that goes if you confuse you lose, yeah. And so when you simplify it, when you focus on one, maybe two objectives, then people can just go to your site, and they you know, because people are so in general, we're all we have like short term memory, or we're impatient, or we just want to kind of get to the point of things, because the internet itself is already noisy. And so yeah, and I completely agree with you, that makes a lot of sense to just focus on like one primary objective that actually speaks to your target audience, as opposed to what you think, you know, it should look like and how it speaks to you. It shouldn't be speaking to you, it should be speaking to your target audience.

: 16:47

Yeah. And I mean, I honestly think, you know, a lot of people are like, oh, there are so many different website, like software, I don't need a designer, I can do it on my own. Okay, that's, that's technically true, right. But the other thing I think most people don't consider, for example, me and my partner, we only work with Divi. The reason that we chose to work with Divi is that it is a drag and drop theme. So our clients can go in and make the changes themselves after we've launched the website, they don't have to hire us and pay 1000s of dollars every single time they want to move award moved, or they want to change an image, which is the one place that we used to hear a lot from our clients. But at this time, there's more to building a website than dragging and dropping. And I think too many people just go into and say as long as I can make something that looks passable, it should be good enough. But you shouldn't be undertaking a website design or redesign without a plan. And that plan, I think piece for a lot of people.

Jen Amos: 17:46

Right? Yeah, I was gonna ask, you know, what's the difference between hiring someone versus doing yourself. And I think when you do it yourself, you're going to naturally have some blind spots. And you're also going to, you know, generally make the web unless you are a designer, you know, you're gonna make the website based on how you think you should see it, where a professional can look at it in the eyes of your ideal target audience.

: 18:08

Right. And again, there's a lot more to website design, than just putting up the different pieces of the website, there is the strategy behind it, and the strategy behind the design itself. That takes time to learn. And if you take the time to learn that great, you can design your own. But if you think that as long as you log into WordPress, pick a theme and throw your content in there. You're good to go. I mean, I guess technically, you're gonna love a website. Oh, will it work for you? Maybe maybe not. And I think that that's the problem with, you know, the the rising culture of people saying, well, I can do it myself, I can do a lot of things myself, doesn't mean I'm going to.

Jen Amos: 18:46

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's kind of like, is it worth the time to do it yourself? Is it really worth the time? And and then once you have it up, I think it's good to delegate something like that. So you're not, you don't take it. So personally, I think when people give you feedback on your website, you can just say, Okay, let me just refer this feedback to my designer. And

: 19:05

you know, I read the book, The Big Leap. I think it came from that book, where he was talking about, let's say, your printer breaks, are you going to spend, you know, hours learning how to fix printers, maybe if you want to become a printer repairman. But if you're not sure, you can spend hours learning how to design a website. But if you're not going to become a website designer, what's the point? Just get somebody who already knows what they're doing to do it?

Jen Amos: 19:32

Yeah, exactly. I've learned throughout the years that it's actually more expensive to try to be cheap about things than it is to actually like pay someone. Because just like what you said, if you're not spending money, if you're trying to do it yourself, you're spending time and you're spending resources and you're, you know that time could be better spent on more productive things like rather than working in your business, you can delegate that and actually work on your business. And you know, wouldn't be able to like kind of continue to grow and expand it without having to do all the minut things within your business, like putting together a website?

: 20:07

Oh, absolutely, I am every day making a list of the stuff that I'd like to have somebody else do for me. And that is at the top of my list. You know, as I said, I have three children, my sister just had her second child. So we really need to start outsourcing if we're gonna grow the way we want to, because there's only so much that she and I can do. And at the end of the day, that design is my favorite part. So I will really outsource that for a long time. But that's why we will focus on outsourcing our bookkeeping, which I'm horrible at this, I keep forgetting, ya know, all this stuff that a VA can easily do. So we don't have to spend that time doing it. And we can focus on landing clients, and actually doing the client design work.

Jen Amos: 20:49

Yeah, we've recently hired new help on the team. And I was kind of sharing this with my colleagues. But in the last couple of days, I feel like I've been going through this identity crisis, because I have I have free time. Now, you know, like, I, I'm kind of like, oh, my gosh, I don't have to do the admin stuff, I don't have to do the marketing stuff. I mean, I'm gonna focus more on the marketing stuff now. But like all the minute stuff, like the the tedious everyday things of like engaging on social media and stuff like that, but now I'm in this place where it's like, okay, like, that opens up my mind to expand our business and focus more on stuff that I really like, which is podcasting and connecting with people and building our network. But lately, that's where my passion lies. And I feel like I'm kind of my best self when I do stuff like this. And it really is nice to get to that place where you can trust professionals to take over a part of your business, I think when people first get started in business, they try to be this super solopreneur. And really try to you know, do it all. But you come to find as you mature in your business, you just can't. It's not practical.

: 21:52

And to some extent, part of that shore is budgeting that in the beginning, you kind of have to wear all the hats, because you don't necessarily have the money, or you don't have the clarity to know what you need and who you need it from. But at the same time, most people come to a point in their business where you have no choice but to jump, you'll never be able to grow without investing some sort of time or money in delegating, because then you'll just keep staying in the same place. And it's a risk. Sure, and it's, you know, easier for some people to make than others. But at the same time, nobody's ever really going to grow their business, to where they want it to, unless they want to stay small, if they really are the only person working in their business, because then they're limited to only their time, and only their skills. And you know, it's just never gonna get to where you want it to be.

Jen Amos: 22:41

Right, right, exactly. I have one more question about websites just for you. So once a website is updated, do you have a recommendation on how often it should be updated or revamped?

: 22:55

Ah, like the actual design? See, you shouldn't ask me because I do my website like, five, six times a year.

Jen Amos: 23:04

Nevermind, it depends.

: 23:07

I mean, in reality, you should be going on to your website, maybe once a month just to specifically look for outdated things like products, you're not offering services, you're not offering broken leg, stuff like that. But as far as like actually redesigning it, you should only be doing it maybe once a year. And only there's actually a reason. Because if your website is still working, if you have the same target market, the same services, there's no need to mess with something that's not broken, you know, but if you have a specific reason for changing the branding or changing the look of the website, then absolutely, you shouldn't be doing it maybe once a year. So just to make sure that your website is correct that the pictures, you know, the look like you

Jen Amos: 23:49

know, absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Lily for all of that knowledge and advice about like how to do your websites, you know, doing it yourself versus getting a professional, how websites and social media can complement one another. I think that was just a ton of valuable advice for our community that are looking to either get a website done, or get their website updated. I want to go ahead and get into your passion project that you and your sister have operation site launch, which focuses on women entrepreneurs and military spouse businesses specifically, I'm curious too, I'd love to hear more about why you and your sister have decided to do this. And just a little bit more of what it's about.

: 24:30

So there is a local organization here in Maryland. It's called 100 entrepreneurs and they work with people who are in the military are about to get out of the military who are looking to become entrepreneurs. So they have speakers every month to you know, different subjects, different experts. And my sister and I were there and I was like, I'd like to do something for the military community and design websites. Alright, we're gonna do this. So we decided to offer discounted website services. is for the military community. It was only recently after we went to MC actually that we decided to focus more on military spouses. And to kind of change up our offerings a little bit, because previously, what we were doing was essentially giving discounted versions of our main services. But we realized that doesn't really make sense because the target markets are completely different. And our main business, we're working with women, entrepreneurs who've been in business for a while, and, you know, they have the clear brand clear services and everything. But for our OSL side, we're looking for people who are really just getting started, their budget, their needs, all of that would be completely different. So we revamped all of our packages, to really serve that audience in a much better way than we were doing before.

: 25:45

I love that that's a very awesome thing that you and your sister are doing. And, you know, one of our good friends is about to become a military spouse like her and her significant other, they're already planning on getting engaged when he's back from deployment. And, you know, after all, these interviews I've done on holding down the fort, I feel like I can see her life change, like I could see what's going to happen to her, you know, she's going to be moving around a lot. And, you know, I think eventually, you know, she's gonna have to choose something where she has to work from home. And you know, a lot of new spouses or those who aren't, you know, legally married yet. I think having a resource such like this is really helpful, because it gets them to see like, you know, if this is going to be your life, if you're going to have to move quite often, you want to have something that you can take with you. And you know, what better way than to have programs such as this to get you started in launching your business.

: 26:39

Right. And, really, it's not just about the portability, it's the fact that when you're talking about online businesses, a large majority of them don't have huge startup costs to begin with. And we don't even recommend people throw 1000s of dollars into their website in the beginning, because, you know, if you change your mind, or if you decide you want a different focus or to offer a different service, then you're just out that money because people aren't going to redo it like three months later. So it just makes sense to kind of have all of that into place. Actually, one of the things my sister and I are looking into launching in 2020 is a training program for military spouses who want to become WordPress virtual assistants. One of the things that our clients often ask us once their site is launched, is to make changes or to, you know, maintain it on a regular basis. And we don't really do that only because that's not the part of it that we love. We love the actual design and building, not editing and maintaining. But I found it really hard to find anyone who actually does that. So I said, Okay, I'll just train some people. So, you know, the goal is to find some military spouses who have been looking to start a business who aren't sure, necessarily what they want to do have minimal tech skills, because it's really not that hard to do these kinds of basic things, and show them how easily they could turn it into a business. No, yeah, word, but still, like we can help them turn it into a business.

Jen Amos: 28:07

Yeah, I think that's so awesome. Because in my former life, I had a small online marketing agency. And I felt like the hardest people to work with were web designers, because it was kind of like a one and done kind of deal with them. They create the website, and they're done. But in terms of the management, you know, that was hard to follow up on these web designers about because they're aren't ready to go on the next project, or, you know, a lot of times website building is there a part time gig, it's what they freelance. And so by the time I check up on them, again, they have a job, or they moved on to a different career. So I think it's super awesome. What you and your sister plan on doing in the new year is to train WordPress for, you know, military spouses that they can have that skill set. And that's something that is very needed. You know, there's a lot of people, like a lot of business owners want to have a website done, you know, they end up losing touch of their designer, and if they need the upkeep, it's great to have people like that. So I'm excited to, you know, to see what you and Patricia have in store for, you know, for these future military spouses to get, you know, certified essentially by you to do WordPress,

: 29:13

by and I mean, the goal would be to keep some on our team so that we could also start offering those services to our clients. And I agree that, you know, the difficulty with websites is that they're one side projects. I mean, we've had maybe three or four clients that have come back more than once, but it was really only because they changed their business, and they needed something for their new business. And, you know, I was speaking to Todd, get remembered last night, the CEO of Bunker labs, and I was speaking with him the other day, and he was talking about how every business needs a recurring source of income and so we shouldn't start doing the editing and maintenance and I said, I didn't really start my business to do the stuff I don't want to do. It was so hard. Like I understand what you're saying, you know, absolutely right. We need some sort of a Arnica. But I think that this sort of training other spouses would be a much better way to kind of get something more regular without going into the things that I really don't. We don't want to be doing anyway.

Jen Amos: 30:11

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And if you have people on your team, it's like, you're gonna get paid just because, you know, if you market the maintenance part, like, I have, like an old client, that just like, it's just one client, it's been years since I've, like, you know, done my business, but I still have one client that's still paying me today for website maintenance. And I barely talked to them, but they still pay me anyway. You know. So I think that's, that's a great way to create reoccurring income.

: 30:38

Right? So yeah, we definitely have big plans for the new year. And we really want to be able to, to make a difference in these spouses lives, especially when my husband was unexpectedly discharged, you know, we were hit really hard by it. But knowing that we had my business at least established really made it at least a little bit easier for us, then if I was unemployed, and he was unemployed, we're like, oh, this is not good.

Jen Amos: 31:03

Right, right. Now, that is so powerful. And I hear more often than not that there are so many people getting discharged or just released from the military early. So you know, if people think that the military is a stable career, it's no different than any other type of job, like you might get laid off. Just it's just a different term in the military.

: 31:24

Yeah, exactly. I mean, we thought that we still had another three years, and then my husband injures himself and all of a sudden, no, you're out. So like, it's tough when you get that kind of news, and you realize everything has to change. And we, you know, we ended up getting through it relatively well, not everybody does. And I think having a fallback plan, or, you know, having something like this for a military spouse is something that's really their own, that they can continue on, either through the military or when their spouse is out. I think it's a really good thing for military spouses to be able to do.

Jen Amos: 31:57

Yeah, of course. I love it. I love it really? Well, awesome. I want to thank you so much for sharing so much valuable information today and sharing a little bit about your life with us. For people that are interested in learning more about you and Patricia, and the work that you do with what websites and WordPress, how can they get ahold of you?

: 32:18

So our main website is site, s yt, this.com. And our passion project website is operation site, fit launch.com. And we're also on Facebook, facebook.com/site. Biz, although we're not on there a lot. So you're better off go on our website.

Jen Amos: 32:39

There you go. Yeah, I am not really on. I mean, I'm on Facebook, but it's one of those things like oh, I have it, just to have it. So I totally get it. Yeah, totally get it. Well, awesome. Lily, do you have any closing any more closing thoughts or any closing thoughts for our listeners before we go?

: 32:58

Well, I really appreciate you having me on the show. And I definitely looking forward to doing more work within the military sphere and hopefully making a difference in military spouses lives who are just looking to create something of their own.

Jen Amos: 33:12

Awesome. Well, Lily, thank you so much for your time. And to our listeners want to thank you so much for listening, and we hope that you had gained another piece of resource or education to help you continue holding down the fort for you and your family. We look forward to speaking with you on the next episode. Tune in next time.