043: "In order to survive and thrive, you must build community." Creating relationships that make you feel understood, respected, and valued with Jason Matthews

Jen Amos 0:00

Welcome to holding down the fort, a podcast show dedicated to curating knowledge, resources and relevant stories. So military spouses can continue to make confident and informed decisions for their families. Because let's face it, we know who's really holding down the fort. I'm Jen amis, a Goldstar, daughter of veterans, spouse, and your host for today's show. Let's get started.

Hey, everyone, John Amos here. Hope you all had a wonderful weekend. Really excited to get into this next interview. But before we do, I have a couple of announcements as always. First of all, holding down the fort now has a newsletter. Similar to the podcast show, this newsletter will be curating knowledge, resources, and relevant stories for military spouses and families. What I like about this newsletter is that it's a collective effort from the guests that we've had on our show. So if you had enjoyed listening to our past guests, and you want to see more of their content, you can do so by joining our newsletter. Learn more about our newsletter by visiting holding down the four podcast.com. Secondly, holding down the fort is brought to you by the company that I'm proud to represent us but wealth at US bet wealth we are more than just your typical financial firm. We love to educate and empower veterans and their families on how to have personal autonomy in their lives with three concepts that guide us identity, self development and financial control. For the last couple of episodes. I have been putting an emphasis on one of our pillars self development. We have a passion for helping our veterans and military families discover who they want to be in post military life. And part of our initiative in doing that is by offering a free 30 Day LinkedIn masterclass. Now, at the time of this recording, I know that we are almost finished with our live version of the masterclass. However, we still plan on continuing this program even once the live version is complete. So if you're interested in improving your LinkedIn profile and your personal branding, overall, check out us but wealth.com forward slash LinkedIn. Once again, that's us vet wealth.com forward slash LinkedIn. And from there you will get the latest updates on our free LinkedIn masterclass. Last but not least, I'm excited to share that I'm looking for someone new to join me as a co host for holding down the fort. If you have been an avid listener, and you've really benefited from the show, consider getting involved. Shoot me an email at Jen at holding down the fort podcast.com To schedule a time with me to get acquainted. I'm most interested in hearing about what the show has meant to you so far, and how you'd like to add to the conversation. Once again, if you are an avid fan, and you think you want to take a shot at co hosting with me and holding down the fort. Reach out to me at John at holding down the fort podcast.com Or you can get that email in the show notes on our website holding down the fort podcast.com Thank you so much for listening to my announcements really excited to get into this next interview with Jason Matthews. Enjoy.

Hey, everyone, welcome back. I'm Jenny most your hosts for holding down the fort. And I am really excited because I get to introduce you to someone that I've been working with for I think about two months or so now. Thanks to Charlie Mike life coaching and that is Jason Matthews. So a little background on Jason. He is a US Army vet honorably discharged. He's a relationship strategist, which for him that means he likes to teach people how to overcome their personal challenges, so they can create the relationships that make them feel understood, respected and valued. Jason, welcome to the show.

Unknown Speaker 3:56

It's great to be here. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah,

Jen Amos 3:58

yeah, absolutely. It's so funny because you have been my life coach for about two months and and oh nine weeks Yes, nine weeks. Thank you for those but I was gonna say eight weeks I was like, oh wait, he gave me a bonus week. So I have to remember that and appreciate that and and I knew I knew toward the end that I wanted to get you on the show because I I just know that through Charlie Mike life coaching they focused specifically on veterans and military spouses and Gold Star families with coaching. And I just knew that just with what you all are providing there. I had to get you all on my show. Or at least you on my show Jason to talk about the good work that you're doing. So why don't we actually dive into just how we met through Charlie Mike life coaching like what is it first of all for people that are hearing it for the first time and how did you come across it? How did you decide to get involved?

Speaker 1 4:52

Great question. So when Charlie Michael I first started with just Chandler Chandler was the only one who was really spearheading this before he had an amazing team that he now works with, I saw an opportunity to get in on the ground level of being able to help veterans who have had challenges in their life after coming home from either war or even just from their career in the military, and how to transition and what that means and how they're able to reintegrate into a regular society into civilian life. And it's something that I have come to realize is that in itself is a very traumatic thing, because you come from a land of structure, where people are told where be, when to be there, and what to wear. And now they're basically given out to the wild and say, figure it out on your own. And there's a lot of need for discipline in that. And Chandler is one of those people that really saw that, especially with those who suffer from Post Traumatic Stress, that there is a huge challenge with being able to make that transition, and being able to integrate well into society without suffering huge emotional loss. And what we wanted to do with children make life was to make that transition much easier. And let people know that even though the environment is changed, they're still safe. And because they're safe, they can figure out what is next and what else they can offer, to make their lives meaningful for them and other people. So that's, that's really how I kind of got involved with them. I saw them on Facebook, I saw him on Facebook, we got to talking. And we realized that there was a great connection, a great opportunity for us to work together. And then as the roles were being defined, he wanted to create the golden Silver Star Program. So him and I started talking about that. And I actually volunteered to be the director. So he was like, Hey, if you want it you go. So I said, Sure. And that's really what led you and itemId was that you'd filled out the form. And there was a little bit of dance, if I remember trying to figure out how to how to get in contact with you. Because you said, Well, you can call me on this way as I was having trouble actually getting information. And finally, I was able to get your email, we were able to connect that way. And then we met on Zoom. And I saw that there was a need. And I wanted to fill that need. And I realized that I was creating something that could really help. And I just wanted you to have that for two purposes. Really, there was a little bit of selfishness involved there. The first was because I realized that this would really help. And the second was, it would offer a test case to see how effective my program really was. And to make sure that it's something that was those proper for human consumption. So I wanted to offer that be able to make that a possibility. So that led us to where we are today.

Jen Amos 8:01

Yes. And if I was your guinea pig, I'm so glad that I was. Well, first of all, I think it's so awesome. Thank you for sharing that and how you were able to connect with Chandler and get involved in this amazing organization. And yeah, secondly, I just appreciate you seeing something in me or seeing that I needed something. And you had chose to take some thermal time or like, like a lot of time to work with me, because it was really helpful. And I'd like to say that it's something I really recommend for people to look into. When you first told me the program that we were going to go through. My initial impression was like, it was interesting, because I didn't know that I needed it at the time. You know, I felt like I was just telling you where I was at. I was like, Okay, I'm a Goldstar daughter, and I have what you have described as complex PTSD, because I lost my dad when I was young. And I had to deal with the aftermath of that. And and then when you said to me, like, Okay, I want to take you through this, like, you know, eight week relationship program. In my mind, I thought, like, well, what does that have to do with my trauma? You know, like, honestly, I didn't really understand, like, at that time, it was only until we started going through the program where I realized like, oh, like, everything is about relationships. And, you know, you mentioned this earlier, and I thought it was very profound that our veterans experience PTSD, you know, from the service, but transition itself is a form of trauma. And I never heard anyone describe it that way. And not just for the veteran, but even for the families, a family of the veteran, because their life is changing as well. They go from this, you know, unpredictable life of PCs, seeing all the time and establishing a new normal every time. And then once you're out, it's like oh, okay, now as a family, we can decide like who we want to be. And this is I think this is very common knowledge. There's not enough resources or maybe the There's not enough awareness of the resources out there to, you know, make that smooth transition. And that transition is all about creating, I mean, from what you're saying, is creating a safe space with people that you know, and love and trust, you know, to say, Hey, you're safe, you're fine. Like, we're gonna get through this together. Does that sound about right? Am I saying that? Right? And

: 10:20

it's really, it's really important to identify what this safe mean? Because you can say, I feel safe. What does that really mean? How do you quantify that. And the best way to quantify feeling safe is two things. First, you feel secure, like nothing's going to attack you. And second, you have opportunities for support. And you have to have both of those in order for you to feel like you are safe. In order, you feel like you actually have the opportunity to say, Okay, what is next for me, because without those, you're in a survival mentality, where you're only thinking about the next 15 minutes, the next half hour, the next hour, the next day. And when you have that kind of mentality, it's impossible to engage with others, because you're trying to make sure that you don't suffer. So the focus is just on you, and what you need just to get by. Whereas when you feel safe, you can reach out to other people, and create those relationships that lead to real opportunities for success, for living your purpose for doing just about anything.

Jen Amos: 11:24

Yes, absolutely. And I really want to dive into I mean, obviously, this would take a whole conversation to talk about, but one of the initial things, one of the initial resources you recommended to me was the polyvagal theory and understanding that and you had recommended a book to me, and why don't we elaborate on that a little bit. Because what I realized from learning that is that there's three types of stages you can be in. And obviously, you're going to do a better job at explaining this to me, but let me just share my perspective first. So first, there's the stage where there's the freeze state where you don't know what to do, that's when you're traumatized. The second one is if you're in fight or flight, and then the third one is when you can socially engage where you feel safe. And when I learned that, and obviously, you're gonna elaborate more on this for us, when when I learned that I realized that most of my life was either in the freeze state, or the fight or flight state. And it's only really this year where I had a desire to be in social engagement, meaning that I want to do community with people like I want to learn how to trust people. So obviously, if anyone's hearing this for the first time, you probably have no idea what I'm saying. So Jason, why don't you elaborate a little bit on this, and I think it'll help give our listeners perspective on maybe where they're at in terms of the, you know, the polyvagal theory. Okay,

: 12:41

so the basic principle of political theory is that in order to survive and thrive, you must build community, it is a biological imperative. And if you look back over 250,000 years, when the Neanderthals were still around, when humans came over in maths, we basically bred them out, because human beings, the homo sapiens had a much better understanding that a large community always beats a small tribe. And when you have that load of numbers, you began to change the landscape, you change how everything is done. And you see this throughout history time, and time and time again. Anyway. So the polyvagal theory was developed by Dr. Steven Porges, who's a research psychologist out of the Kinsey Institute in North Carolina. And he came about this theory when he was studying heart rate variability, the variations between the ups and downs of your heartbeat when you're at rest, and the larger the ups and downs. And the more variation there is, the more calm you are, if you only see shallow spikes and shallow falls, that's usually an indication that a person is in some sort of emotional distress. So he was looking at these rates of heart rate variability in neonates before they actually were born fetuses before six months before they actually were born to the world. And then two years after, when they were in the world, and he used that as a predictive method to find out what children would have emotional disorders such as ADHD, or autism or things like that. And he was very accurate. And his prediction extremely accurate in his predictions to the point where it actually was something that could be predicted almost 100% of the time. So the psychological community got a hold of this and said, Well, we can use it as a way of being able to help people deal with trauma. And even though that wasn't his intent, it became like this wonderful second order effects. And it came to be that we were able to find who they were able to find out because I'm actually not a psychologist or a psychiatrist. I actually have no formal training whatsoever. So please make sure you do any kind of research before If you take any kind of advice that I'm giving or anybody else, make sure you consult your mental health or your medical provider, that you are doing your own research, so now I can't be sued.

Jen Amos: 15:12

Thank you for saying that. You saved me too.

: 15:18

So what they found was that the highest order of behavior a person has when they are well adjusted, is social engagement. And this is our ability to connect with others in a meaningful way that create community that creates relationships, and that allows growth to happen both personally and interpersonally. And when there is something that makes it impossible for the social engagement to cope with such as something that that is dangerous, or something that is life threatening, that level shuts off, and then fight or flight kicks in, and fight or flight is our ability to either confront or distance ourselves from something that we perceive as dangerous, or life threatening. Now, if we can't do that, if it is impossible for us to escape, or it doesn't make sense for us to fight, because it will cause more damage than it will actually prevent, then the human condition is meant to go into complete, numbing collapse and emotional collapse. And if this is persisted for too long, this can also become a physical collapse, which can often cause death, that term is called feigning death. And this comes from reptiles, when they were able to almost complete stop all bodily function, defecate and be seen as something that is dead to predators would not want to eat because if it's dead, then it must be harmful. So and then what was they just passed, they're able to resume all normal functions and go about their day. Well, human beings, and mammals in general, can't do that, because our metabolic needs, our needs for oxygen are way too high. So if we go too long, without oxygen, we go through hypoxia, which is oxygen starvation. And then we go through brain death, which is death. And so the whole point is to keep as much as possible away from the emotional collapse, and keep as much as possible into social engagement, knowing that, at times, it is necessary to use the entire range of the human condition, because it doesn't make sense. Or it's inappropriate to stay in social engagement for too long, because that itself can cause its own harming effect.

Jen Amos: 17:32

Oh, social engagement, social engagement could be harming itself is that what you said?

: 17:37

Yes, if it is used as a way to avoid fight, or flight or emotional collapse, which are natural, human conditions, that it is not used in the right way, it is used as a coping, rather than as a way of being able to maintain survival.

Jen Amos: 17:52

That's so interesting, because you know, from what I've learned from you, and the reason, this is the first time I'm hearing this part of it, and maybe it's because you've already prepped me for this moment to understand all of these, but that makes a lot of sense. But social engagement, and if you like, overuse it in a way, because I think of people in my life who are extremely friendly and extremely trustworthy, and they don't pick up you know, signals, or they don't pick up those red flags, if someone is going to take advantage of them, is that kind of an example of what overdoing social engagement would be like

: 18:26

it can be, but that's usually an indication of something else, that's usually a misfiring of the cues of what is safe and what is not safe. And this is especially true with people who at a young age, did not experience the proper cues of feeling connected of feeling a sense of belonging, and of that warmth and love that we meet in order to nurture properly. So what can happen is, a person can see that what is normally dangerous is seen as safe. And what is normally safe is seen as dangerous. And so they gravitate towards the dangerous things, because that is how they believe they can maintain their own safety. And they stay away from the things that can actually be helpful, because experience has taught them that if they trust that they're actually going to suffer more emotional damage, than by going towards the things that actually are damaging.

Jen Amos: 19:18

Yeah, that's like what I had shared with you in our coaching program, because I guess I'll just come out with my dirty laundry, is that it was hard for me to trust people that loved me unconditionally. Because to me, the closest person who made me feel that way was my dad. And when I lost them at 10, I was convinced that if I were to get close to anyone like that ever again, they were either going to leave me or die. And so in a way I look back and I think about all of the healthy relationships I could have had and how I just missed them because of just that instinctive or just that that fear that subconscious fear that I didn't know I had, that I didn't want to lose them the way that I lost my dad.

: 20:00

Write, that makes complete sense. Because now you, like you said, you see, if I get too close to this person, they're going to leave. And that actually creates a meaning for people as well. And it created a meaning for you, meaning that me getting too close to them is going to kill them or drive them away.

Jen Amos: 20:16

Wow. Yeah, it's so interesting, because, really, this year, I made a vow to myself that I wanted to build a sense of community. And I feel like in talking to you, and learning from you, I feel more determined than ever to do it right. And to do it with the right lingo, you know, the right language. And, you know, my husband and I are a prime example of this, where we both think so differently, and we both deeply love each other, but it always comes out, it almost always comes out the wrong way. Like he will, you know, over provide, because that's his way of showing love, but then I'll feel, let's say emotionally neglected, because that's what I need. And then I will, like, overly try to show emotional, you know, try to be emotionally available for him. But he just, you know, closes off, because that's not what he needs. And so it's been really interesting to I mean, you know, fortunately, with a lot of help, and I think the community that we are starting to build, we are trying to, you know, find the middle or even find a way to work together, so that we can build that bridge and talk more clearly to each other and really understand, you know, how much we love each other through our actions, through our words, through the tone of our voices, and everything. And, you know, obviously, that's going to be a thing that we do for the rest of our lives. But I've been more hyper aware of that this year. And I think a lot of it has to do with talking to you, Jason. So thank you for that.

: 21:40

You're very welcome. One thing I do want to say is something that I saw online that said that 80% of people do not have the capacity for empathy. And I think it's really important to debunk that because what are some of the people have the capacity for empathy? It's what do they have the availability for empathy? That is really, the question that should be asked, because of a person doesn't have the availability, it's because they're, they're more likely in a state of emotional collapse, that feeling of being numb, and that needing to engage only to stave off the feelings of loneliness, that can often drive a person to do things that are not really conducive to the human condition. So it's important to realize that, it seems that we do have the capacity for empathy. The question then becomes how can we help people become more empathetic to themselves and to other people. And there's a there's a direct correlation, where you have to be empathetic to yourself in order to have the empathy of others. But herein lies the rub. Before you can really be empathetic towards yourself, you have to learn what that means by being empathetic with others. So that's why I created the relationship building Academy to solve that conundrum. How do you do this? Yeah. Because most people think, well, if I don't know how I feel, how can I possibly interact with others? Because they're not going to give me what I need? So how do I know? How am I supposed to feel about myself? Right, right. So they believe that it's hopeless, that connecting with other people is completely impossible. And that's not true. It all comes back to do you want to compete? Or do you want to collaborate? And competition is what leads to conflict, whereas collaboration leads to peace. And it's just understanding how do you create that collaboration, and in my ebook, The create life changing relationships, using three secrets, it all comes down to three things, honoring yourself, honoring exactly who you are at this moment in every moment. And then accepting the experiences that have brought you to where you are right now. And realizing that there are lessons to be learned, and then forgiving the negative thoughts and feelings as well as the limiting decisions and actions that you have had about yourself.

Jen Amos: 24:13

Powerful. I mean, I was going to ask you, like, how do we do it? And I just love how you shared that. And obviously, if people want to learn more, we'll be happy to provide that ebook link or access to it in the show notes. But it sounds so simple to do. It's like the answers are so once you hear the answers, it sounds easy, but it really isn't when it's put into practice, wouldn't you say?

: 24:35

I would agree with that because it's like a muscle and if the muscles atrophied it's going to take a long time to be able to build up the strength to make that a reflex. So in the beginning, you are being very mindful of what it is you're doing, how you're speaking, how you're reacting and how that reaction is impacting others. But as you go on to do this more and more and more It becomes just second nature, it becomes the thing that you realize this works, the reward is almost instantaneous. And the results provide much more satisfaction than doing things on your own. So it's like I said, The Human Condition is to create communities to create relationships. Without that people suffer with that people thrive.

Jen Amos: 25:30

Oh, wow, Jason, you have a lot of knowledge. And to all of this, I'm curious to learn a little bit more about your background, and what inspired you to become a relationship strategist to begin with.

: 25:43

So my childhood was a childhood of trauma. And it was all kinds of trauma, it was basically domestic abuse, it was sexual abuse, it was feelings of betrayal, it was bullying, it was all kinds of really heavy stuff. And by the age of 15, I realized that I did not have a system of being able to connect with others. And I had a choice, I could either despise myself for that, and realize that this was never going to happen. And this is just the way that it was, or I could become curious as to how people interact. I chose the latter, I became very curious about how it is, people interact. And that opened up a lot more questions as to why people do what they do, and what it is how they know that this is the right thing to do. So that got me into questions about profiling. And that got me into going to school to get my bachelor's for psychology. And just really becoming fascinated with the aspect of how to relate not knowing that what I was really doing was understanding how to overcome trauma. Because trauma is experiential, meaning that the experiences that you have are going to be traumatic. But at the same time, the way you relate with others can heal that trauma. Because as you develop new experiences of proper relationship building, it tends to dull the sting or remove the impact that those traumatic experiences of the past have had. Don't necessarily go away, but you're able to manage them. And you're able to accept them more readily because you have new ways of being able to interact with people. So there was one book that I read in college called the gift of fear by Gavin de Becker, if you haven't read it, I suggest strongly that you do read it is it's a fantastic read. And in that it really helped me understand how people interact with each other. And it was just kind of, again, ignited my passion for understanding people. And I got pretty good at AI to being able to predict people's behavior because I was so voracious in my understanding of why people do what they do, and what it is that makes them do what they do. And I still didn't have a format for being able to relate with them myself, I just could predict their behavioral patterns with frightening accuracy. But the part was still missing for me to interact with them. So that's when I started really investigating things like NLP, neuro linguistic programming as a way of being able to create connections. And that worked for a bit that did help some, but there was still something that I was missing. And it wasn't until I realized that the whole purpose of relationships is to focus on what you can offer rather than what you need. And up until that point, I was focusing on what I need, and no one gives a shit about what I need. All they care about is what I can do to help them. And by understanding what it is I can offer and offering without any pretext whatsoever, just say hey, this is what I want to offer you. And an offer could be something as simple as a handshake. It can be as simple as just a gesture of good faith. Or it could be something major like offering something of monetary value, whatever, it doesn't make a difference what that offer is as long as you are reaching out to someone giving them something of value. And then that in turn causes them to appreciate you much more. And that is some way to build that as a way to build common ground called reciprocity, the act of giving without expecting anything in return. You're getting something anyway and being delighted by what you get.

Jen Amos: 29:54

I like how you mentioned how you say focus on what you can offer again And I'd never looked at it in that kind of way. I think when I get into relationships, I eventually think to myself, what I'm lacking, you know, in the relationship more so than, like how I'm contributing, or sometimes I like over contribute, and I lose a part of myself in that process. So I think it's just an ongoing journey of trying to find that balance, you know, that serves not just the people around me, but myself.

: 30:30

Yeah, one of the most famous and successful marketers, his name was Zig Ziglar. And my most favorite quote of him is you can have anything you want, as long as you help other people get what they want. Yes. And what I get from that is, the fact that you want something is given. So because you know, that it's given it doesn't need to be focused on is something that is always going to be there it is a fact, facts don't need to be focused on you don't focus on gravity, you know that it's just there, you don't focus on oxygen, you just know that it's there. You don't focus on water, you just know that it's there. So being able to just know that you have a need there, that's fine. As long as you are focusing on getting through the interactions you have with others, and the way that you're able to impact their lives, so that their contributions back to you, which are given through their desire to see you become whole, because you've done something to help them become all as well, that allows you to just naturally get what it is that you need. So it's as much who you interact with, as the way that you interact with them. And knowing what kind of person is going to fill what kind of neat, the trick is, you don't know that unless you interact with them. So you just, if you have this mindset of I'm going to interact with everybody, then eventually you're going to find the interaction that gets you exactly what you need the exact way that you need it. And does the thing that you have been wanting to do that entire time.

Jen Amos: 32:07

Wow. So many profound things. Jason, thank you, first of all, for sharing your past, I think for people who can talk so openly about or even candidly about the trauma they experienced growing up, it tells me that you have done the work, you know, to get to where you are today. In my opinion, I could be wrong. But that's what I'm gathering is that we can have an open dialogue about, you know, why you are where you are today. So I just want to thank you for sharing your past with us. My pleasure. So with that said, I'm curious how has that impacted your life today, and your relationships, and obviously, you're here to help other people, but how has it impacted your life as well, you know, learning all of this.

: 32:49

So, I used to be the kind of person like, like I said, to focus on what it is that I need. And that would only get me so far before my need outweighed my ability to provide like the need became my focus. And that usually soured my relationships. So I started doing this, I've only been really understanding the polyvagal theory for the past maybe two years. But in that two years time, I've been able to really test what it means I've made some amazing connections with people who I've been able to go on many different podcasts to share this message. And I've been able to work with many people who may not have been my exact client, but there's someone that I've been able to perfect this model on. And they've all had the exact same response as you have. This is an amazing process. And why is it that I'm not charging for this? So I think one of the reasons for that, if I'm being completely honest, is I sometimes do have a perfectionist streak, and a desire to make sure it works perfectly. Right. And I've had different iterations of a self help program before and it just didn't feel right. And I wanted to make sure that this one felt right. And this one actually did what I needed it to do. And now that I've seen the result is being amazing. I'm more than happy to just keep on offering it and offering it for price. Because that's something that is going to help me help even more people.

Jen Amos: 34:35

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you know you're good at something, and you're starting to get the testimonials for it, you know, this episode being an example of that. You know, yeah, I think it's a clear sign that it's something worth putting out there and offering at a monetary price.

: 34:51

So now that you've mentioned that I will say one more thing is that this has really helped to I justify the challenges the tribulations and the trials that I've gone through starting at four years old, and be able to let me know that there was a reason for all of this. And that reason was to make me angry enough to find out a solution. And to make me uncomfortable enough to be able to find out how it is, I can help other people who do the exact same thing, and be able to guide them out so that they can be in a much better place to do the things that they need to do, which will impact the rest of humanity. I tell people that you know that something is right, when you know that it is going to benefit two or more people.

Jen Amos: 35:54

Yes, yeah, you had taught me that throughout our program. So obviously, to me, I think this is very needed for you know, so many people, I think that a lot of our issues can stem back to building community again, like I know, for me, last year, my doctor had diagnosed me with mild depression. And I didn't realize after noticing the symptoms, and coming to terms with it, I had really had it for the majority of my life. Like, since I lost my dad, I've always had just this general gloom, like over my head, and I would usually just kind of resort to feeling sad and thinking negatively, you know, of the world. And what I have found, though, is that and I've done a lot of personal development and reading myself and getting the help that I need that yes, there are many would you call it options to get better, like getting prescribed medications. But one thing that has really helped me is, is building a sense of community, and not just with new people, but the people that are already in my life. Because I think that for so long, it was hard for me to really open up and really, fully want to depend on them. And in order for me to have done that, in order for me to get to that place, I always felt like people needed to feel extremely safe with me first, before I can feel safe with them. And I know that we talked about a lot about that, when I was getting coached by you.

: 37:20

Yes. Yeah. And that's common, because most people are living in a mentality of Survivor. Especially true. I know that to be very true in Canada and the US. So I can only imagine that's true in other places as well. And when you have that mentality of I just need to survive this one more day. And if you go this one more day, without doing this or without feeling this way, then you feel alone, because you feel you're the only person who deals with that, right. And if you're the only person who is dealing with something, then there must be something wrong with you. It must be something that is not right about you. So you must not be as human as everyone else. And the thing that I am reminding people of is you are as human as every other person on this planet. And your ability to thrive and succeed is the exact same as everyone else's. And the only difference is whether you are willing to do the work in order to prove that to yourself.

Jen Amos: 38:31

That's powerful. I think that this is really useful, you know, to our military, community and military families and to veterans, because I think feeling isolated and alone is a pandemic, I think, in our community, especially in post military life. And so I'm glad, Jason that we are having this conversation today and you are sharing your knowledge and everything. So what would you say to that person that is feeling isolated, feeling alone, feeling like they are the only one going through this and you know, essentially not feeling human enough? Like what do you want to say to them, to help them realize that building community working for a community is really what they need to get out of their situation.

: 39:19

So the reason why people feel alone, and as a matter of your service member or your civilian. The reason why they feel like they are alone and loneliness has gripped them is because there are three things that they are focusing on, that are not serving them in the best way that they focus on the guilt, the shame and the resentment they feel about themselves, and how other people might perceive them. And this is born from a sense of fear, the fear of being rejected, the fear of being isolated, but in in stepping into that fear they're isolating themselves. So the first thing to do just become curious as to what it is that they really want. What is it that they do want to feel rather than what they don't want to feel? Yes. You don't want to feel rejected? Yes, you don't want to be judged? Yes, you don't want to feel isolated. You don't want to feel like you are alone, you don't want to be ridiculed, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, that those are things that everyone that no one wants. Great, we've covered that, what is the you do want? What is it that you want to experience? What is it you want to achieve? What is it you want to do? Right? Focus on that and become curious about what it is that makes that so important to you? What it is that makes that such a driving force for you? How does that help you help others, once you become curious about that, become curious about the kind of people that you would need to surround yourself with, that can help you get there. It's all about being curious. You can live in fear, or you can live in curiosity. Those are the only two states that you have. And I like to relate that to that the Native American fable of the grandson that's talking to his elder or talking to his grandfather was a chief. And how the chief says that there are two worlds that live inside of us. One is black one is white, the one that is Black is that of hatred, of of enmity, of jealousy, of fear. Yeah. And then there's the White Wolf, which is the wife will the wolf wife, the wolf, love, of joy of patients of harmony. And these wolves are always inside of us. And then that the grandson asks which one will win, and the chief says the one you feed. But here's the thing, I think that that story is wrong. Because let let let's think about this, logically, if you only feed one wolf than the other wolf isn't being fed, that, well, if it isn't being fed, is going to make sure that it gets fed, because it is going to pay attention to it, it's not gonna allow itself to die. So if you're only feeding, and this is why I said that social engagement can be a bad thing. If you're only feeding the part of you that that experience, that joy, that happiness, eventually, soon is going to happen. And you're gonna get hijacked by that other wolf, the one that you've been ignoring that entire time, you're going to become hijacked, and it is going to steal the food. So instead, one, recognize the fact that both of these worlds exist, and they have a purpose. So you feed them when they need to be fed. And you acknowledge them both so that they both work for you.

Jen Amos: 42:31

Wow, that is profound. I feel like I need to process that. I will process it when I edit the show. That's for sure. Wow, just powerful stuff. Jason. I feel like if I were to I mean, I still have all of our recordings. And I just feel like I've learned so much from you in the recent weeks. And I just want to thank you so much for your time. And you know, before I squeeze any more knowledge out of your head, I definitely want to cut it from here at this point. For people that are interested in learning more about what you do as a relationship strategist. Jason, how can they get ahold of you? How can they find you online?

Unknown Speaker: 43:08

Before I get to that, do you mind if I

Jen Amos: 43:10

make one more point? Yeah, go ahead.

: 43:12

All right, great. So you talked about servicemembers and how coming home. And I had mentioned this as well, coming home can be a very traumatic thing. But that's only one of three traumas that a person who is in the military has. So the first trauma is enlisting. And that's because they are fighting against something that more than likely, they're fighting against something or they are driving towards something that they either don't have or don't want. The second one is the time in the military. So when they go off to war, when they are being conditioned to be a soldier, that they're being reshaped, that is traumatic. And for some, it's too traumatic, they don't make it but for many people they endure, but it's still very traumatic. The third is their separation from the military, however that happens, and whether it's on good terms or not, it's still a trauma. And so it's important to recognize that when you have a trauma, there's a piece of you that inherently dies, and something else is put in its place. Now, that's not good or bad. It's just a transformation. So the spouse that is at home, they are they they have a constant there, they're taking care of the family, they're up keeping the house while their counterpart there. The person they depend on is a way doing their thing to also help with a family but doing it a different way. When they reintegrate to the home and the separate from the military. It is so important to understand that a new relationship has to be created in order for that family unit to survive. Five, because the person that left died, the moment they stepped out the door, they were gone. The person that is back, even though it looks, walks, talks and smells, just like the person that left, that person is inherently different. And so a new normal has to be created a new way of being able to understand how each person interacts with each other interacts with themselves and interact with their environment must be had. That is the only way that the trauma that they experienced can be soothed, and they can transition into something that is much more conducive to a civilian life.

Jen Amos: 45:40

Thank you so much for sharing that, Jason. Because, you know, this show really speaks toward, at least my intent is to have it speak toward active duty military spouses and military families. And I hope that your explanation, you know, gives perspective to the spouse that maybe doesn't understand, you know, what their service member is going through. And once again, you know, you have given me a perspective that I hadn't considered that, you know, the service member goes through three types of traumas, you know, before, during, and after their service. So thank you so much for elaborating on that. And I imagine that information will be very useful to our listeners.

: 46:18

Great. I'm so glad. So to answer your question, I have a program called the relationship building Academy. And I'm also developing the relationship building bootcamp, which is a automated version of that. Now, if people want to learn more, learn more, they can go get my ebook, I'll provide the links to you for the show notes. I can't say too much about it right now, because it isn't fully built

Jen Amos: 46:44

on the price, you're gonna want it.

: 46:48

Right now, by the time that the show goes live, more than likely it's going to be is actually going to be there. So paste into the show notes people and find out how you can actually get it cryptic there. So now they will have where is it?

Jen Amos: 47:03

Yeah. And our and our newsletter as well. Yeah, we will have that in the newsletter for people that want to catch that and and find it. So if you really want it, you will find it in anything holding down the for podcasts related, you know, marketing material.

: 47:18

And so you can also find me on Facebook, you can search me up as jason.en dot Matthews Don't type in Jason Matthews, because it's way too many of us, man. So as Jason does end up Matthews. And you can also find me on my Facebook page related our e l a t. So you can you can find all the information you need there as well. It'll be it'll be in good hands of being able to find out where to go and how to get there. nicely. So yeah, that's the best way to get a hold of me on Facebook, you can email me at Jason at relate. I'm dot com. And I'm more than happy to interact with you and be able to get your that way as well.

Jen Amos: 48:01

Beautiful, and all of Jason's contact information will be provided in the show notes and our newsletter. So you are welcome, everyone. With that said, we hope that today's episode gave you one more piece of knowledge, resource or relevant story, so you can continue to make confident and informed decisions for you and your family. Thanks so much for listening. Jason, thanks again for joining me today. I really appreciate your time.

: 48:25

Jen, as always, it's fantastic talking to you. Beautiful, and we

Jen Amos: 48:29

look forward to speaking with you all in the next episode. Till next time