078: Encouraging female service members and military spouses to connect on shared challenges with Misty Flynn

Jen Amos 0:00

Welcome to holding down the fort, an award winning podcast show dedicated to curating knowledge, resources, and relevant stories for today's military spouses, so they can continue to make confident and informed decisions for themselves and their families. Because let's face it, we know who's really holding down the fort. I'm Jen, emos, a goldstar daughter, veteran spouse, and your host for holding down the fort by us bet wealth. Let's get started.

Alright, Hey, everyone, welcome back to holding down the fort. I have your co host Jen emos. And with me, I also have Jenny Lynn strube. My other co host. So Gentlemen, welcome back. Hey, thanks

Unknown Speaker 0:45

for having me. Glad

Unknown Speaker 0:45

to be here.

Jen Amos 0:46

Yes. It's always great to have you. And especially because you've been bringing people onto our show. We're just talking about this offline. It's like, I didn't even ask you to do that. And it's like, now I don't have to worry about searching for people. You're just like, hey, Jen, what about this person? What about that person? I was like, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:02

bring him on.

Jen Amos 1:03

Like it's perfect. Thank you. Thank you for doing that extra work that I didn't even ask you to do.

Unknown Speaker 1:08

You're welcome. Glad to be of service.

Unknown Speaker 1:10

Yeah,

Jen Amos 1:10

we have an incredible guest today. Let me go ahead and introduce her. We have misty Flynn, who is a Master Chief Petty Officer serve 26 years, is a mom and a lover of the seas. So misty, welcome to the show.

Unknown Speaker 1:23

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Jen Amos 1:26

Yeah. So I thought I'd start by asking, how do you and gentlemen know each other?

Speaker 1 1:31

Well, that's a fun story. So on my second aircraft carrier that I served upon about 10 years ago, now, her husband came on board the ship, as my division officer, he was a brand spanking new Ensign. He was an old one, fresh out of his officer training. And he came on board our ship to be the division officer in our department. And through him, I was honored to meet Jenny Lynn who many times I like more.

Unknown Speaker 2:12

I love it.

Speaker 2 2:13

Let's be honest, she did a lot of keeping Matthew in line. Like, that's really, that's really what happened here. Like she and I really tagged him, you know, keeping him on the straight and narrow.

Unknown Speaker 2:25

That was fun. What an adventure.

Jen Amos 2:29

Oh, my gosh, that's hilarious. Wow. Okay. And so genuine was telling me offline that since then you two have known each other for about a decade now?

Speaker 1 2:36

Yes, about 10 years. It's really been wonderful, you know, to take this relationship that started 10 years ago when he was a junior officer. At the time, if I remember correctly, genuine, you were pregnant? With? Which? Which boy, with Luke? Yes. So here I had, you know, this junior officer who was new to the officer community, and 10 years ago, so you're talking about at the time a young couple with?

Unknown Speaker 3:08

Are you saying I'm not young anymore?

Speaker 1 3:10

No, we're grown. Now. That's a good thing. It's that you go from young to being grown and grown, with grown comes wisdom and experience and all kinds of other stuff, you know, that just hides in our wrinkles. You know, so Matthew was a junior officer, they were a young couple pregnancy, then you throw a deployment, you know, in the mix, and Matthews learning what it means to be an officer in the Navy. So it was an interesting beginning. And I think it was, in our case, just kind of luck, that all of this stuff happened at the right time. And we have the right personalities, you know, to be able to gel, Matthew had some challenges, you know, as a junior officer, that it was my job to kind of help train him and help walk him through some of these learning experiences. And, you know, as far as I'm concerned, we were very fortunate to have Jenny Lynn, because not only was she involved and involved, you know, in the right amount, but she was also incredibly supportive. And that's just always so helpful for us. When you know, the spouse understands the obligations, and actively supports, you know, the things that need to be done.

Jen Amos 4:35

Yeah, absolutely. jennylyn. Any thoughts on that?

Speaker 2 4:38

I mean, that was all very kind. Thank you know, I've been busy. Missy said it really well, like, that's how we came to know each other. And I think, you know, through the last decade, we've all moved, I don't know, probably collectively 10 times in the last 10 years. And, you know, both Matthew and misty have advanced in rank and we've maintained strong bonds, we were stationed here in San Diego for like two hot minutes together and got to see each other at least once between deployments and work. And, you know, it's just been something that, for me has been really a blessing in the military community, to not only have military spouse friends, but to also have active duty female service member friends, because it does give you a different view of how the military works. I mean, I get to see it from the work side of my husband coming home, and, you know, telling me all of his work stuff, but to have friends and female friends at bat that also do very similar things. It's given me a different perspective on like, how big and how much the Navy does, what is expected of everyone in their in their role.

Speaker 1 5:48

Mm hmm. And I think in addition to that, as our relationship has evolved over the years, you know, we've all gone through, you know, different personal things that have affected each other. And what started as a professional relationship, you know, really, truly evolved into, you know, an actual friendship, you know, where we were able to reach out to each other for support, you know, when we would go through our own trials and tribulations, whether those challenges were professional or personal. So it truly did evolve into an actual legitimate friendship.

Jen Amos 6:25

Yeah, yes, I think that's such a gem, I think in the military community, considering how we are moving around so frequently, and having to reestablish ourselves and create a new normal every time. I think it's beautiful, when you're able to maintain, I mean, not just a professional relationship, but the, you know, the personal relationship that comes out of that. And so I think that's really wonderful. And it's quite often, at least to my knowledge, that it's easy for, let's say, military spouses to build community with each other, despite how hard the military life is. But to have you to, you know, be able to have a friendship, I think is very beautiful, and not often talked about, I think, to be, from my own knowledge, would you to feel the same way about that, like in regards to, I guess, the relationship between like female service members and military spouses,

Speaker 1 7:12

I absolutely agree with that, I would have to say, unfortunately, that that's kind of been a bit of a challenge, you know, at least over the course of my 26 years in the Navy, you know, and this is something that genuine and I have spoken about, when you figure that how long I've been in and how many different duty stations that I've been at, you would think that my circle of friends amongst, you know, Navy spouses would be bigger, but unfortunately, it's not. And to me, my relationship with Jenny Lynn is unusual, I don't have very many spouses that I am as closer friends with, as I am with Jalen, and you had mentioned about the community that exists for spouses, which is incredibly supportive, and it's very important, and it's very necessary. But I think sometimes we feel, I hate to say left out, but um, you know, it's, we're not part of the spouses or the wives organizations. And then, you know, our brothers in arms, you know, they have their own manly bonds. And there's concerns and issues and problems that we have as women in the service that I think kind of get overlooked. Sometimes, you know, we have children too, you know, we have all of those same challenges that you deal with, as, you know, a mother and in the military, which is so difficult already. We have those same challenges, but we're also the ones we're also deploying. So, it is unfortunate to me that I don't have more relationships with spouses, like the one that I have with jennylyn Yeah,

Jen Amos 8:49

I'm curious, Misty, like, in the meantime, how have you found your sense of community in the military,

Speaker 1 8:55

with our brothers, you know, we try to fit in. But it really ends up boiling down to finding you know, there's other women in service, you know, with whom you can relate and, you know, build your own network, it's just a lot smaller. Yeah, you know, women makeup, I believe something to the tune of 18% of the United States Navy overall. So that's, you know, one out of every five sailors is a woman. And, you know, I've had situations where on deployment, you know, and you're trying to make plans, you pull into a port and you're trying to make plans to go on liberty and trying to find someone to go on Liberty with like, Oh, I want to go stay the night in a hotel in this port and have a spa day and you know, get my toes done because I have both feet. But the pool of you know, peers that I can do that with it's a very small pool. And sometimes, you know, our brothers they, God bless them, they're adorable. They operate under this assumption that, because we're women, we all like each other. Hmm. You know, and that's not how the world works. That's not how it works anywhere, you know, oh, well, why don't you hang out with so and so? Well, you know, just because we're the same gender doesn't mean that we're gonna be besties. That's a challenge, you know, that we face. So my relationship with my fellow sisters are definitely the closest relationships that I have, because they can truly relate to the challenges that I've experienced.

Jen Amos: 10:38

Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that. And, you know, I'm just so in awe of your accomplishments, I believe, at this point in your career, having served 26 years. And, you know, I think that when we think about female service members, we, you know, you reminded me, you have kids do, you know, like, for some reason, that didn't cross my mind, as awful as it is to say that out loud. So thank you for, you know, just bringing light to that just speaking from, you know, the female service members perspective, it's like, hey, you're human, too. You know, you mentioned earlier that in a way you wish that you could have more relationships with or be more in community with the spouses. Where do you think that difficulty comes from?

Unknown Speaker: 11:23

Oh,

Jen Amos: 11:26

okay, I know where this I know where this is headed. But I wanted to bring it up. You know what I mean, I wanted to work my way toward the question.

Unknown Speaker: 11:35

I know, Jen, you're nailing it.

Unknown Speaker: 11:37

Thank you. I got I got you. I got I got you. I got all of us. Okay,

Unknown Speaker: 11:42

a little less money. Thank you. Good. Good, good, good.

: 11:46

I think that there's a couple of reasons why those bonds don't exist. And, you know, boys, this can be a bit of a controversial topic. So I can only share my opinions and my experiences, other women in the military may have, you know, different points of view on this. There can be trust issues. And I don't know, if there are jealousy issues based on trust or trust issues based on jealousy. But I think that there's a notion that on deployment, especially, you know, their husbands spend an awful lot of time with us, right. And, you know, if you're in a relationship where, you know, the foundation of trust isn't solid, or you're not a trusting person, just in general, you might not be comfortable with that. So that's something that most of us really battle a lot is a misperception that, you know, we join the military to find a husband and that we're chasing after all, y'all as husbands. And what's funny is, you know, we deploy with your husbands, the sides of your husbands that we see, we chasing that. net, you know, they're not around you. So, you know, they fart around us. They don't care. Because, you know, we're just another service member to them, you know, and so we see parents gross sides, and we see their annoying sides. And, you know, none of that is attractive.

Jen Amos: 13:26

So I'm trying not to laugh really loud right now. That's hilarious.

: 13:29

It's pretty funny. You know, like, for example, you know, with Jenny Lin's husband, we did a seven month deployment, I'm pretty sure it was seven months and shared an office, a very, very small office. There were three desks in it. And that's all there was room for in it toward those three desks. And over the course of you know, that seven month deployment, I'm stuck in a room with this guy, you know, for 16 hours a day. And now I know what you're like when you're grumpy. And now I know, you know what you're like when you didn't get a good night's sleep. And, and now you know what I'm like, when I haven't had coffee. I guess I would ask, you know, the wives to consider that the relationships that we develop with our male counterparts are really a lot more like siblings. Mm hmm. And like really annoying siblings that want to beat the crap out of each other all the time, you know? So the jealousy and the distrust are something that tend to come up a lot. I had, you know, one situation where I went to the commissary to go grocery shopping. And I saw one of my fellow chiefs from my command, you know, at the commissary with his wife, and I know he saw me and then He made a point of not looking at me. And he didn't even acknowledge me when he walked past me. You know, we might not be super good friends, but you at least you know, give somebody the nod when you walk by them. And he completely ignored that I even existed. And I knew right away, you know why he did it. I had another instance where a friend of mine got promoted. And they had the promotion ceremony at the command. And afterwards, I went, you know, up to hug him and congratulations, as Jenny Lynn can tell you, I'm a hugger. If I've met you for three seconds, I'm gonna hug you.

Unknown Speaker: 15:41

It's true. I love it. So

: 15:43

give him a hug and congratulations. And I had hugged him 1000 times. And he, you know, very quickly, you know, under his breath, said, you know, please don't hug me my wife's here. Wow, okay, got it. I understand.

Jen Amos: 16:07

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: 18:00

So that's a big one, I think is the distrust. And I think the misperception that maybe you know some spouses have about the relationships we have with their husbands. I would love you know, a Navy spouse and navy wife to ask me, you know, gosh, why did you join the Navy? What prompted you to join the Navy? You know, I, like you said, I have kids too. So let's talk about you know, the shared challenges we have of raising children in this lifestyle. You know, let's talk about those shared challenges of when you PCs, and your kid has to move schools and they have to leave their friends. You know, let's talk about the shared challenges. When you know you have to get checked into a new medical facility and you have to get a new primary care manager you know, for your kid. Oh, we share a lot of experiences you know, as women and I just can't help but think that it would be beneficial for all of us if we had conversations like that.

Jen Amos: 19:09

Yeah, absolutely. So I want to turn over to you Jenny Landon I'm curious to know how are you receiving misty perspective like what does it mean for you to hear her side you know as a female service member,

: 19:20

I mean one this is a conversation misty and I have had so I am familiar with the thing she is sharing and it is not news to me. However comma hearing it for the first time it was because just like I mean, I know misty and I know her kids and also you kind of forget that sometimes like so to hear that like asked me about like what it's like to send my kid up for another school again, or you know, she said PCM and I'm gonna say like female doctor who likes to go to those anyway, but then had to have to find one at every single command to you know, do the thing like it's not great and those are all experience we shared and you know, she was talking about her her Brothers in service and I think one of the things that she and I have discussed and that I really feel like is the area where there could be a lot of growth is that part of the reason Missy and I are friends, is because my husband helped foster our relationship, you know, and there, unfortunately isn't a lot of that, like, in the relationship between military spouses and female service members like there is a third member, like an unspoken third member that can really make or break how well this relationship goes. And I am very fortunate that in this one, my husband was like, hey, Misty is someone that I trust, she is someone that helps me and likewise said kind things about me to her. My wife is someone I trust, my wife is somebody you know. And so for us, like it was easy to build a relationship because we all had a mutual like and trust of one another. And I think that's really like, why I wanted her to come on today. One of the things that I do have another side gig is right. And about a year ago, I put out a question that that asked, you know, hey, for those of you who are military or military, you know, what would you like to know about what it's like to do this to live this lifestyle. And Missy wrote back and said, You know, it would be really great if you could share what it's like to be a female service member. And unfortunately, I had to write her back and go, I really love that you asked that. And I'm never going to have that experience. Like, I cannot write a personal story to me about, you know, I can help share hers. And so part of the reason I asked her to be on today is because I think that's really important. And it's not something that I can do on my own. Because it's not ever an experience, I'm going to have let's be real. I'm not signing up for boot camp, I'm almost sporting, and it just does not interest me in the least. You know, this is how I could help foster that conversation and also our relationship. And I mean, it really took that third person, the male service member going, Hey, here's someone I trust for these reasons, and really admire for these reasons. And on the flip side going, this is where my wife excels. And I think you'd really like her because that is that, you know, I mean, turns out Missy and I have a lot of the same quotes around the house, like she hadn't posted on the ship, I hadn't posted her eat. I mean, they're just so many more ways that we are similar than different. But it does really take that extra fostering because I'm not gonna spend seven months on the ship, ever. I might spend 700 on the ship. Well, now during COVID none but you know, I'm never gonna have that day to day interaction with female service members. So it does take my husband and other husbands fostering that relationship.

Jen Amos: 23:00

Yeah. To me, it sounds like it's a team effort, y'all. Like if anyone in the family has any insecurity, it's a responsibility for like for, let's say the husband to say, hey, like, it's platonic. She's an annoying sibling. Okay, that's all she said, No, she farts too. Like, I can't stand her. And I'm stuck with her in this cubicle for like, 16 hours a day, like, no,

Unknown Speaker: 23:24

am I under?

Jen Amos: 23:25

No, absolutely. You know, I think it's just like having that dialogue. And I think it is unfortunate if there is some kind of insecurity on either party, and on either side, and you know, collectively, we're not working together to ease their insecurities. I think for me, when I think about, my insecurities tend to come up the most when I feel like someone's withholding information from me when they're not telling me something, or they're not reassuring me or explaining something. And I can imagine that very often happens, you know, with the spouse who maybe the service member is not saying it, like there just happens to be a female in his unit. But he's not talking about it. And maybe she's too nervous to bring it up herself to be like, I don't want to be that spouse. I don't want to be like the jealous one. But we have to talk about it. It's important because it's not us versus them. It's not the spouse versus the service members. It's a team effort. Like we're all in this, less than 1% of Americans serve, right. We gotta stick together. And we have to have like these hard conversations. And they are very hard to have. So you know, Misty and Jenny Lynn, I just, I want to thank you so much for having this conversation. And Missy, I wanted to ask you this question, because you mentioned earlier that when people assume why you joined the military, I want you to tell us why did you choose to join the military and still be in it 26 years later?

: 24:43

Well, I think what people would find interesting is that my reasons for joining the military are very similar to you know, a lot of other people's I didn't have, you know, great prospects in northern Minnesota where I was growing up. I had failed at it. College, because I didn't have the self discipline to go to class, I got caught up in the partying lifestyle, like so many, you know, do. So I lost all my scholarships, I failed at college. And I was stuck, you know, in this town, you know, working part time minimum wage jobs to pay the rent and the car insurance and I knew I was going to be stuck in northern Minnesota for the rest of my life if I didn't do something. So, you know, I ended up joining the Navy. And I found in the Navy, a place where I truly felt like I fit in, you know, we're just all a little goofy, you know, and you can generally look at, you know, a lot of folks who join the military will tell you, you know, that they chose this path because things just weren't going great. You know, where they were, and they needed and a really abrupt change. And so in the Navy, I found the discipline, I found the structure, I found those things that just simply did not exist in my life. And so that's what got me in the door. And what has kept me here is, I love this job. It's so much fun. You know, I've been to, you know, Spain, and Italy and England and Japan and the Philippines and Singapore, and I've been to all these places I saw lame is a Rob in London, and I got to walk the cobblestone streets in Rome, I got to interview Ben Affleck, when he came out and visited my first, you know, aircraft carrier, I got to hug Robin Williams, when he came out and performed on one of my ships, I have met the most amazing people from every conceivable background. And it's a breath and a depth of culture that I would not have been exposed to. In northern Minnesota, you know, so I've stayed in because I've loved my job, I've had the opportunity to have so many different experiences that I wouldn't have had, you know, back in my hometown, and, you know, then I had children, and the Navy has really been great, you know, in terms of providing the resources to help raise my children, I've been thankful for the friends that I've had to include a couple of my my Navy wife, friends, you know, when it's come time for, for needing help with my children that and I can't be there. You know, that little village, that tribe of mine has, you know, really become an actual part of my family. And, you know, now here I am, 26 years later, and I've, I've served on three aircraft carriers, and my daughter's in grad school, and my son just graduated from high school, and they're good people. And they understand the concept of being part of something bigger than themselves. They understand sacrifice. They have a much broader worldview than I certainly had. And I've just loved every minute of this.

Jen Amos: 28:19

Wow. And nothing in there. Did I hear Oh, I want to take her husband. So

: 28:23

yeah, yeah. In fact, to be quite honest with you. Unfortunately, I have been married twice. And neither time did it work because I have horrible taste in men.

Jen Amos: 28:39

Men don't miss the men. Men are not good enough for you. Let's reframe it. They're not good enough for you. didn't make the cut every time.

: 28:48

So I ended up you know, I came in the Navy as Mr. Flynn. And after a couple of failed attempts at this whole marriage thing. Eventually I'm going to leave the Navy is misty flan. All the happier for it.

Jen Amos: 29:01

Beautiful. Wow. jennylyn. Any thoughts?

: 29:05

I'm sure there are some summer that will come to me. You know, after I process all the information. Now I'm just exceptionally grateful to misty for coming on today. And I also did want to say like she talks about having 26 years of service and serving for 26 years is like just this thing she does and it's not she is exceptionally kind and very good to her sailors. That's why she's a master chief now because truthfully, for the longest time even though I knew her name was misty, I called her senior because she was the Senior Chief. And then she advanced in rank and math. He was like you're going to have to stop doing that. Like oh, that's that's just the the relationship she had. And so I just you know, she's been such a big part of my family. Navy journey. But I know she's been a big part of other people's too.

Jen Amos: 30:04

Oh, wow, I feel all the fields right now. Misty, any final thoughts? Anything else you want to share to our listener? And let me backtrack genuine. Thank you. Thank you for sharing. Yeah, so misty, just any final thoughts, any parting words of wisdom or just anything you want to share to our listeners here at holding down the fort,

: 30:25

the last thing that I would like to share with any spouses that that may be listening. One thing that, you know, many of us mothers in uniform get is a comment along the lines of, oh, my goodness, I don't understand how you can do that. I could never do that. And I think that it's well intended, but but it really comes across as a backhanded compliment. Because, you know, when they say, I could never do that, I could never leave my children. No, well, what are you saying? No, I, it's hard for me to leave my children to. But there are reasons I do this. And it's not because I'm a bad mother. You know, it's people always, you know, are so surprised when, you know, they see how exceptional my son and daughter are, you know, given the very strange upbringing that they've had. And that can be a difficult one for us, when we perceive that we're being judged about the quality of our motherhood, a big challenge that we have, sometimes with leadership, specifically with male leadership, you know, when we want to take our kids to that doctor appointment, when we want to go to that parent teacher conference, when we want to attend that assembly at the school, you know, and, you know, we're kind of given aside I, and we've heard time, but you know, time and time again, your children didn't come in your seabag? No, they didn't. But I would submit to you that, you know, your wife's take your children, to their doctor's appointments, and your wives take your children to their parent teacher conferences, and your wives go to these assemblies and cheer for your children. And why do they do those things, they do those things, because you know, your wives or their mothers? Well, I am my children's mother, too. And I understand I can't go to everything, you know, but if we're in a situation where we're not deployed, you know, and our schedule does allow for me to do those things that a mother should do. You know, I would like that same consideration, because I am to my own children, male supervisor, what your life is to your children. So that would be I suppose the last thing that I would ask for a little Grace?

Unknown Speaker: 32:51

Mm hmm.

: 32:52

I think that's the word I would ask for a little grace, when we feel judged, as mothers very, very often based on our choices, because people just look and see, you know, oh, you're leaving your children. And without thinking, you know, how difficult it is for most of us to do that. But we're doing it for a reason. Yeah. We're not just doing it, because you don't like our kids.

Jen Amos: 33:18

Right? Right. For sure. Yeah. And sometimes we do what we do. I mean, we especially do what we do for our kids because of our kids. You know, and I think about in my own childhood when my my dad was gone months at a time. The pleasant thing for me at that time was that I was fortunate to never feel his absence, but to feel his presence. Like I never missed him. Because when he was around, he was around. And so yeah, everything that you shared today, Misty has really touched me and inspired me. And I just want to thank both of you, Jenny Lynn and misty for publicly having this conversation. You know, for our listeners, I know, it wasn't an easy one. And so I just want to let you know how extremely grateful I am. So thank you again, for joining us.

: 34:03

Go make a friend. You know, if you're if you're military, if you're a military spouse, go make a friend go find a woman in uniform it at your spouse's unit, and you know, ask to go get coffee, you're never going to understand somebody else's point of view. If you don't, you know, hear about it from them and, and have that conversation. So, go get your, you know, chai latte, whatever it is, and I'll do my comma. Because I'm a junkie. Find a woman in uniform at your husband's unit and just go grab some coffee, and just talk about the things that you share in and that's how those friendships start.

Unknown Speaker: 34:41

Mm hmm.

Jen Amos: 34:42

Wow. Well, on that note, gentlemen, any final thoughts? Nope. Wow. I really enjoyed our conversation today. I feel happy and warm inside. So thank you, again.

: 34:51

Thank you for having me. This was a great opportunity. I hope that this, you know, inspires some conversations and maybe sparks some friendships.

Jen Amos: 35:00

Yeah, I hope so too. All right, well, let me go ahead and wrap up here. To our listeners. We hope that today's episode gave you one more piece of knowledge resource a relevant story, so you can continue to make confident and informed decisions for you and your family. We look forward to speaking with you in the next episode. Tune in next time.

Unknown Speaker: 36:04

Broken