079: “The stability of a military spouse’s mental health is the cornerstone of the military family.” Theatre and expressive arts with Amy Uptgraft

Jen Amos 0:00

Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the award winning podcast holding down the fort. I am your founder and co host, Jenn Ramos. And as always, I have my amazing co host with me, Jenny Lynch troupe. Gentlemen, welcome back.

Unknown Speaker 0:11

Hey, thanks for having me. Glad to be here.

Jen Amos 0:14

Yeah, and today, we are really excited. We already had kind of offline chat with her. So let me go ahead and bring her on. We have Amy updegraff, who is a veteran spouse, playwright and actor who founded the nonprofit, the veterans spouse project. So Amy, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on. I appreciate it. Yeah, I knew that the third time would be the charm to have you on, I know that we were kind of playing like, I don't know, calendar tag is what you probably call it because just you know, life happens. And that's okay. Like I was saying to you both offline that if I give a lot of people grace, my hope is that they will give me grace. when something comes up, and I think it's been great so far.

Speaker 1 0:51

I feel like it's very: 2020

Jen Amos 1:02

o you feel any different from: 2020

Unknown Speaker 1:15

Um,

Jen Amos 1:16

I mean, I feel hopeful that: 2021

Unknown Speaker 1:43

Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 1:44

that really swell?

Jen Amos 1:45

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think it's important to be hopeful. Like, sometimes if that's all we have, it's a good thing to have, if that's the last thing we have, it's better to be hopeful than to feel hopeless, right. And so, you know, let's talk about this for a little bit. So prior to pandemic times, tell us what the veteran spouse project looked like. And then we'll get into like, oh, it obviously changed. But let's start there pre pandemic. Okay, perfect. Well, ironically, we were in the middle of reading of the play, and in person expressive arts workshop for military spouses in Leesville, Louisiana, outside affordable when everything in the middle of March just like started shutting down. And so we even had to kind of like scrap the last day of our workshop. And I'm sure you all remember, like everyone was kind of just in like, panic mode a lot. Yeah. So we had been able to do the reading there, which we were thankful for, but even, you know, cut into some of our programming, but up until then we do a theatrical production of a play called I will wait that we tour around the country, we've performed it in three different locations so far. And we couple that with expressive arts workshops for military and veteran spouses, where we just kind of create a safe place for spouses to share their feelings, their stories, how they actually feel about being a part of the military community. And so that's kind of our overall umbrella of our mission. We also record interviews with spouses, archive their stories, as well, especially some of our older generation and those stories that we find so moving and impactful. I really like that you use expressive arts as kind of a form of therapy for military spouses, and veterans spouses as well. And you know, not everyone like Jenny Lynn, and I can do talk therapy, you know, like Jenny Lynn, and I, like we're all about it. We're like, I have a couples counselor, and I have a therapist, you know, like, that's where I'm at in my life right now. And I love it. I love just talking. But some people may not be able to do that as well. And so they have to find another outlet for therapy. And so tell me a little bit about, you know, what compelled you to start the veteran spouse project? Yeah, absolutely. So during my husband's fourth deployment, I just had a really hard time, we had had a fourth baby on his third deployment. And then he left soon after, again, on the fourth, and I just, I was having a hard time. So I was in therapy, too. I'm a huge proponent of therapy. I love all the therapy. I was in therapy too. And, you know, typical, you know, like journaling and kind of writing that stuff down. And because I have a theater degree, I've been an actor, I was like, You know what, I'm just gonna put it in a play, like my brain thinks and dialogue, I think and scenes and the way people interact that way. So I just kind of decided I was going to write this play, and I wrote it with a friend of mine. And I started to interview spouses across generations, and the stories that just came out of the spouses was incredible. They just weren't credible. So as we started to write the play, and workshop, the play and do the play, I realized that that was totally, totally therapeutic for me. And it was a cathartic release. And really, I say this a lot. Writing the play for me healed me in a race. So as the play started to kind of gain traction, and people seem to be really be reacting to it, we decided to add the expressive arts workshops for spouses I find in the military community. You know, people love a five K, they love a wide, they love to just do that. I totally respect that is not my jam though. No, yeah, I respect that people love it. That's not the way I necessarily want to like work out my frustration. So we kind of created this space for spouses who might be more inclined to express themselves through some type of art form. And it's not, you don't have to be a beautiful artist, you know, it's kind of we just put all different art supplies out there and allow them to use different art modalities to share their stories. Some spouses will come and paint or watercolor or mosaic or a journal or ride or, you know, it's kind of just a way to share their stories through art. Yeah, I was gonna ask you more about the examples of what do expressive arts look like? Because in my mind, you know, my lack of knowledge when it comes to art is Yeah, maybe some form of acting, or what have you. But you know, you already mentioned some examples like murals and painting and what have you. Are there any other you know, forms of expressive art that you also, you know, share with the spouses? Well, like I just

offered a class called heart to script where we talked about like taking your spouse story, and because in the play, I will wait. There's five monologues that kind of anchor the play, I talked in this class about you're telling your spouse a story and ending up with a monologue. So what does that look like? And how do we shape that? And so that was really geared for spouses who feel kind of driven to writing and the written word. And then Wendy Caldwell is our she's actually our expressive arts director, she facilitates almost all the expressive arts workshops. So she just offers a beautiful variety, you know, you come into her, she's had to do everything online this year, obviously, because of COVID. Right, that transition really well. But in person, yes, she just comes in. And there's typically a theme, like, what fills your cup, or what anchors you and she just kind of talks through, there's usually, you know, some meditation involved, and then just this open art supply, and she just kind of encourages you to dig into, you know, like, what anchors you in the hard times of this life? What are your touchstones and then you use all the art supplies to kind of create a piece that then you share with everyone else.

And you know, it's really we've just seen it be really, really powerful for spouses to be able to put their emotions and thoughts out into the world. And we all know that that can be therapeutic. So yeah, I think that's really incredible. I do have a question. But I want to check in with Jenny Lynn First, if there's anything you want to add, oh, man,

Speaker 2 7:39

she's just speaking my language. Like, I love to hear that things like this are available for spouses, I got to do an expressive art things this summer here in San Diego. And other than my own personal writing, it was the first time I kind of done one of those guided workshops, here's all the supplies, use whatever you want, make a mess, and it felt so good. And then we had our written piece on the back end of that, where we kind of wrote about, like, what drove us to create the piece that we created and and theme of ours was around our experience as a spouse with mental health of our active duty servicemembers, specifically PTSD and or suicidal ideations. And so it was a really, very powerful piece. And just really, like fun feels like the wrong word to talk about with that kind of topic. And also, like, the place we went, there was a whole room where you literally like could throw paint, and nobody and it was fun. And it was very cathartic. And now the piece that did hangs in our den and my husband's like, that's beautiful. And I'm like, Okay, thanks. Awkward. And, but no, so I love hearing that these are things you offer to spouses, because I think you're right, like outside of the exercise world, there's not like a focus on like, how you cope with all of the things that are on your plate.

Jen Amos 9:00

When we speak a lot about there's a recent study that came out, that talked about within the military, the spouses mental health, if the spouse has mental health is stable, it's like the cornerstone of the military family. So we kind of believe that if the spouse is able to take care of him or herself, and make sure that they are doing those things, you know, whatever that is for them help create a healthy stable place for them mentally, then they can be there to support their service member in whatever ways. And when the spouse doesn't have that when that's not the cornerstone, it's oftentimes when we see things really, really fall apart. So you know, we believe in taking care of the spouse is is taking care of the soldier as well.

Speaker 2 9:45

Mm hmm. I completely agree with that. I hit that that foundation I think that is at least in my family has been very true.

Jen Amos 9:56

Yeah, for sure. I love that I wrote that down taking care of the spouse. is taking care of the soldier. And you said something else powerful to like the spouses mental health. And when it's stable, it's really like the cornerstone of the military family. I love that so much. Because it's like, yeah, like, duh, like, you know, y'all coming home and us, you know, like, you gotta be stable. So I think sometimes we feel guilty, even like we don't ever want to take away from their service and what they're doing. Because obviously, that's where the focus needs to be. But I know in the case of my husband when he would be downrange and deployed, I mean, that's where his focus was all the time. He was kind of always like, Well, yeah, you got it. Like you got it. And I was like, oh, okay, sure. I got it.

Unknown Speaker: 10:41

I'm like, No,

Unknown Speaker: 10:42

I don't know.

Jen Amos: 10:46

Yeah, I think it's just a way to kind of bring emphasis to that, like, a healthy supportive family can in turn support their soldier? Yeah, absolutely. It's like how they say like, happy wife happy life will happy family happy. So yeah, I think it doesn't rhyme. But you know. Yeah, we're gonna make it rhyme. Because this is my show. And I say it rhymes. But anyway, let's go ahead and move on here. So Amy, I am curious, you hinted at, you know, really what started your project, which is the play that I will wait play. Tell us a little bit more about that. I know, you mentioned that you wrote it with a friend. And there are five monologues in it. So take us through like, you know, I guess in the days you were able to possibly perform it like what was I will wait about? Sure. So I will wait is the tagline, Florida is for everyone gone, someone waits. And the idea behind it is, is that as I interviewed, you know, spouses from World War Two, and Korea and those places, I realized that really, although so much is different, so much is the same, those universal feelings are the same, the fear, the frustration, the longing, the love, like it's, it's universal. So we decided to write this play that starts in World War Two. And it starts in World War Two, and it goes to Korea and Vietnam and Desert Storm and the current war. And it kind of hits on those themes that are throughout, I believe, kind of every spouse story. And it's woven together with original music, there's five original songs, there's a rock band that plays and seeing all the music, so it's not a musical, and the actors are not singing, it's a play with original music. And each of the music is kind of written to that era as well. So it's a fully realized production, we tour with about nine actors and five musicians, and then typically in the past have supplemented the ensemble from wherever we are locally, and it ends up being between 25 and 30 people in the cast. So it's a fairly large undertaking. But I will say we're very proud of the impact it has on the people that see it. And I think for me, you know, I believe that the American public in general wants to support its military, I feel, at least from my perspective that they want to support but they don't know how. And oftentimes the military, we tend to kind of circle our wagons and take care of ourselves, which is great and wonderful. And I wouldn't trade my military, spouse community for anything in the world. But it creates a break between this huge civilian population in us. And so what I believe the play does, and of course, I'm biased, I believe theater does.

Unknown Speaker: 13:26

Yeah,

Jen Amos: 13:27

is that it builds that bridge, you know, I say, we'll just come and see this play. And it's gonna give you a deeper understanding of what military families walk through. And I think because it's generational, it allows people to say like, Oh, well, yeah, my Aunt Sally, you know, my uncle Tim was in Vietnam. I hadn't really thought about that before, or I hadn't thought and it kind of helps connect everybody back to the idea of service in the military. So yeah, I love that. I'm curious to know, the response you have received from civilians who watch her play, or who have watched her play.

Unknown Speaker: 14:02

So you know, it's, in the words of Jenny, I hate to use the word fun, but it is kind of fun to see. Because oftentimes, they're very moved, and it's very emotional. So I hate to be like, well, that's fun.

Unknown Speaker: 14:19

It is fun,

Jen Amos: 14:20

sometimes to see that oftentimes, they walk out and are just a little like, dumbstruck and a little overwhelmed at some of the stories that come out of it. And I think it was important for me the play is very, very authentic and raw and honest. And, you know, it talks about the pride we feel in our country, the pride we feel in our service members, but it talks also a lot about the anger we feel having to often do things by ourselves, the frustration, the idea that we often come in second, you know, solo parenting, and you know, each war kind of addresses each scene. Kind Have addresses its own issues within those war. And so I think it also allows civilians to step back and be like, Oh, I hadn't thought about that. I hadn't thought about the fact that you can't really have a sustainable career because you move every two years. I thought you just didn't want to work. And I'm like,

Unknown Speaker: 15:21

yeah, hard to

: 15:22

work when you move every two years, and you have four kids and a husband who's gone, you know, by

Jen Amos: 15:28

here. So just those little things, I think, you know, can allow them to have deeper empathy for what we walk through. Yeah. So I think that hits its mark there. And they are.

Unknown Speaker: 15:40

We did make it. It's very emotional. I mean, it just,

Jen Amos: 15:45

we did it on purpose, to deliberately be like, hey, yeah, you should feel what this feels like, you know, the ripple effects of war are vast. And as the American public who elects the people who send our people to war, you should understand that the ripple effects go on. And they don't just impact the service member, they impact anyone who loves them.

Unknown Speaker: 16:09

Yeah.

Jen Amos: 16:10

And so the play speaks to that. Yeah, I think that's so powerful that you know, and how you both are kind of saying like, Oh, it's fun when you know, something that shouldn't be fun. It's fun. I have a friend who, you know, she's a young film producer. And she was telling me kind of a similar situation where, you know, her met her movie, her short film was intended to make you cry, you know, they're just meant to touch your heart and stuff like that. And she would tell me, she's like, Oh, yeah, I always got a kick out of it when like, people started crying when I heard sniffles in the theater. And I was like, I was like, Yeah, I guess you should be proud of that, like obvious that we do send like a strong message. But like, it's like a complicated response. But obviously, you should be proud. Because you were able to relay that message. Like they were able to connect with that and have a deeper empathy for, you know, whoever that story represents. And so it sounds like you were able to accomplish that with I will wait. Yeah, I mean, we've really tried. And it's been interesting to me market it. How many people as I tell about it, say, Oh, I'm going to tell my friend Sally, she's a military spouse, she'll want to see it. And I always respond with Well, absolutely bring Sally she'll want to see it. But Sally knows it, because Sally loves it. So really, you should come and see it.

Unknown Speaker: 17:20

There you go.

Jen Amos: 17:22

That's who needs to know the story. You know. So again, it's just a way to hopefully help build that bridge and open some lines of communication. Yeah, absolutely. I want to go ahead and shift gears. But before I do, Jenny, Lynn, any thoughts?

: 17:36

Well, she kind of my question was going to be, you know, who's your target market, it sounds like it's really civilians. And that is just good on you. Like that is just something I could really get behind. Jen and I have talked on here before about, you know, I'm a writer. And that's really kind of what I write about my life as a military spouse. And, sure, it's intended to touch the hearts and minds of the people like me who lived this life. But it's really meant to show universal like, Hey, this is my life as a military spouse. And this lesson applies everywhere else and really try and bridge that divide. Because as a military spouse, we really are that bridge. Like, I'm not wearing a uniform, however, comma, I also have a military ID. So there's this like duality of like, we live one foot in both worlds. And I think it really goes a long way to be able to share that story.

Jen Amos: 18:26

I love that I've actually never thought of it that way. But I love that journey. I love the idea. And you're right. I mean, for all practical purposes, we are civilians. I mean, right, but we're not ourselves, and in many capacities. And also, I love that. Yeah, yeah. When I first introduced gentlemen, on the show, you said something that really stuck with me saying that, you know, my goal is to kind of straddle between the gap of civilian and military life. And I think that's really what a spouse does. Because Yeah, there is that duality. It's like you're not necessarily serving, but you like you said, you have, you're not serving in the traditional sense that most people would think. But you do have a military ID, you know, living off base, you know, and then, you know, you run into the civilians or like, wait, like, you don't have a job, you know, like, just all these things. But yeah, just being able to have something like what you're creating Amy, I think is very powerful. And obviously YouTube genuine with your blog, just being able to build that bridge and continue to build that bridge and reminding our civilians why they're so entitled to having an opinion. So anyway, conversation for another time. So let's go ahead and yeah, oh, yeah. Especially this year. It's been kind of interesting. But anyway, I'm gonna move on. Let me see here. What was I gonna get to? Okay, so, Amy, let's go ahead and fast forward to life today. And I kind of want to actually start by asking you, as a playwright and actress, how have you been able to juggle those like your career with being a military spouse?

Unknown Speaker: 19:53

Well,

Unknown Speaker: 19:58

that's the million dollar question. Isn't

Jen Amos: 19:59

it? challenge my friend. You know, the theater is like any occupation where really, it's just built around community. And so oftentimes by the time we would move to a place, and I would figure out, okay, what's the scene? And where would I want to work? And how would this work? You know, they initially are like, well, you're a military spouse, and you know, and they know that you're not there for good. And so they've already kind of placed you in a category. So for me, that can typically find work in children's theater. And so I've done a lot of work with teaching and kids and Children's Theatre, and I've tried to audition and act anytime I can. But really, in part, it was a huge part of what I will wait came out of it was this feeling of, I have such a heart and a desire and training in this particular field. And our life within the military doesn't often allow me to be a part of that particular field, what happens if I took these two things that seem to kind of live in opposite universes and put them together? And it's honestly why we created the nonprofit to produce the play, because I knew that it was the only way the play was going to get produced. So it kind of I kind of made it myself. I mean, I kind of, you know, Wendy, and Leanne was like, we should do this, you know, Wendy, you're an expressive arts facilitator, who's gonna hire you to do that, you know, yeah, head on a business for a few years that she had to sell again, because of all the moving and then. And so I was like, you run the business, you facilitate the workshops, I'll do all the theater piece, let's just do this. And it's, you know, been a huge challenge, as we've moved all over, as well. But I think we just knew, often as I believe, as military spouses have to you just dig in and create your own opportunities, and you don't let people tell you no, and you continue to tell them, Hey, we're actually it would be a huge asset to whatever you have going on, because we're smart, and resilient and capable. And, you know, so we just kind of created the nonprofit and proved that, and we're quite proud of that, for sure. Yeah, you should be proud of it. I mean, you're able to define what it means to be a playwright and an actor for yourself in the military space. And you know, hence you have the veteran spouse project. And I do believe it is something to be very proud about.

: 22:24

And I agree, I mean, I love that I am constantly amazed, co hosting this show at just the entrepreneurial ship, of the people that we meet, I don't have an entrepreneurial bone in my body. And I hear all these military spouses doing all have these awesome things. And I've just constantly like in awe, and just really proud of the group of people that I get to be a part of, you know, I'm not going to start my own business. But the military has defined now what I do for work, and it's been really fulfilling. And so I love that you were able to bring the two together to be fulfilling for you. I think that's awesome. Yeah.

Jen Amos: 23:07

You know, I tell young spouses that all the time, like, you gotta fight for it, you got to figure out what it looks like for you. And, you know, but it's possible. If you're creative, and you figure out what you really want and what you want to take with you, you can find a way to make it work, you can convince a bunch of people like Lee and when Wendy to come. It's a great idea. Let's do it. Because I also am not entrepreneurial, or so I was like

Unknown Speaker: 23:32

to be and you seem to be so

Unknown Speaker: 23:34

let's do it.

Jen Amos: 23:35

I love it. Hire your weaknesses. Yeah, and, you know, part of why, you know, Jenny Lynn shared, like, why she loved you know, every interview we do on the show really inspires her like every interview I do to it really inspires me to be reminded why I was the kind of person in my adult life, you couldn't just like, go Hold like one project like I had, I have multiple projects, I needed to feel. And I was very decisive about my types of friends. And I would have an expansive network. Because, you know, having been a military child moving every two to three years, like you get smarter about like the type of people you surround yourself with. And also, you get more decisive of what you want, you know, you don't wait for permission anymore, because it's like, I can't wait for another PCs, you know, before I decide to do something, like I need to do it now. And so just hearing how much you've been able to do for yourself with four kids and four plus deployments. I'm sure at this point, it's like, it's just astounding. And you know, you should give yourself a pat on the back for that. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I love to hear you say that about growing up as a military kid because I do see that in my own kids. I have two minor 17 year old twin boys who you know are about to launch and sometimes I feel like oh my gosh, you guys act like you're 30 like

: 24:50

how I I'm like just go have some fun, but you're right. They're very like, I think they've just, they've like no, we know what we like. We know who we like. We've done and seen enough things to know. That's a no, that's a yes. And we're going forward and which Ain't No, I love

Jen Amos: 25:07

Yeah, I think it's very true. There's a resiliency that the kids are able to develop at a very young age, I know that, at least for me, I learned very early on that you can't wait for permission, you know, you gotta ask for forgiveness, not permission is kind of learn at an early stage. And a lot of times when you mess up, you're like, Okay, that didn't work, let's try something else, you know, like, you start to just kind of allow yourself to fail forward and just be okay with it, you know, because life is short. And where you live, you may not be there for so long. So yeah, it's that decisiveness that I find is the advantage to let's say, my friends who've, like lived in one place, like all their lives, you know, not to say, That's bad, because one thing I do envy about my friends that have that life is, you know, they have like family and friends, and where they can just like barge into their houses whenever they want, like, I don't have that, like, I have to actively build that every time. I'm somewhere new, you know, and so this is not knocking on them. However, I am saying part of my advantage is, you know, being able to be decisive, like when my friends are like, Oh, I don't like so and so. And I was like, Well, why don't you just stop hanging out with them? Like, they can't, because I've known them for like, ever. And I'm just like, man, if you're in the military life, like it's Come on, like, I just wish you knew my life, because like you would be in such healthier relationships. If you didn't like count your friendship based on your history. You know, it's like, just because you have history doesn't mean that's a good relationship. Anyway, I am going off a tangent here. So let's get back in. So Amy, tell us I do know in our notes here that you are planning on launching three new virtual programs for the veteran spouse project. So can you tell us about that, right, so COVID

Unknown Speaker: 26:39

got all the way

Jen Amos: 26:44

when you produce the play COVID, it does not have not been so great. So anyway, we actually did an online reading of the play back in May. And we had 11,000 viewers, which we were very proud of. So we are looking now to do a video production of the play this year, that we would be able to take two military installations and just around the country and be able to show that and view that in a way that would just be less expensive, easier to travel, depending on what happens with COVID able to do it potentially. And so that's something we're excited about. That's kind of where where I will wait is headed until we can bring life theater back, which I'm hoping is going to be sooner rather than later. The expressive arts workshops have all moved online and we are actively looking to expand them a little so I've started offering some writing workshops. We're looking to bring in you know, some yoga teachers, the meditation teachings, Wendy soul will do the expressive arts kind of just expand our offerings. And because it can all be done virtually now. And because so much of what we do will be online coming into this year, we can you know, have the teacher be in New York, and we can offer it, you know, in different locations, which feels really great. And then the last thing we're looking to do is we launched stories we tell right as COVID hit stories we tell is the idea of going into some of our retirement communities, some of those places, and just asking some of those older veteran spouses to share their stories, and documenting some of their life experiences and just really kind of curate an archive of stories that spouses can go in. And, you know, when they're feeling like I can't do this another day, you know, you can kind of go and get a little hit and hear from those people who have walked through some really, really remarkable, remarkably hard things and come through the other side, just so positively brilliant. And so are ideas kind of you know, that will build this place where you know, spouses can go and feel lifted and supported up and those generation of spouses also will be able to share their stories. I often say when I went to interview to Jones and Abadi, it was two women named Joan and a woman named Betty, all of their 90s about their experiences of world war two spouses. One of them started to tell me all about her husband, and you know, he'd been in the battle balls and he and things and I let her speak. And I was like, it's amazing. But I really just want to hear your story. Like I'm here. I need to know what you did. Like you didn't see him for years. How What was that? Like? What got you through it? What was it like when he came back? How did it work? How did you put it back together? And she just like, sat up at the table. And she just started like just tears running down. And she said, no one's ever asked me that before. Wow. Well, I'm asking you can you tell me and just to know that at 92 that's all still right there on the surface of her heart. You know, that's all still her feeling like my story doesn't have any value. You're gonna want to hear about him. I'm sure you want to hear about him, but I personally want to hear from you, because your story is my story. And so that's what we're hoping to accomplish with stories we tell is just that ability to create some mentorship within our military spouse community,

Unknown Speaker: 30:13

I

Jen Amos: 30:14

feel like we can gain so much from some of those spouses that have walked ahead of us. And they can gain a lot by feeling like we care, and we need them. And we want to hear how they got through it. So that's the third program. We're hoping to get the funding to be able to go into those communities and really hear and record and archive those stories. Yeah, wow, that is so powerful. Genuinely, I don't know if you're like tearing up there. But I thought I would check in with you.

: 30:41

You know, me? Well, I totally was it was glad she kept talking so that I wasn't crying and talking at the same time. Again, I just have such a great respect and heart for that mission of the stories we tell. I think it's very special. And I appreciate your one and willingness to go and do that I was thinking about as you were talking, I have the original Navy spouse guide that was written like the foreword was written like two days after Pearl Harbor. And the woman that wrote it was in Hawaii and talked about like, the Ford is like, here we sit today and I blood. And it's just I mean, there are a lot of really funny things that now as a spouse, and 2021 like to read, and it's like you should always have crudities in your refrigerator. I'm like, I don't even know how to create it. You know, so there, but there are so many things that transcend all the generations. That's just a great bonding and mentorship, like you said, and I've always I've been very fortunate in my spouse life to have great mentors. And I really do wish that for everyone in our community, because I think it makes or breaks your experience. Absolutely.

Jen Amos: 31:49

I feel that too. And I feel you know, one of the world war two spouses I talked I talked with spoke about how Pearl Harbor happened in December 7 happened and their entire world changed. And I speak a lot about how for us 911 happened. And my husband was going to be out of the army and 911 happened and it was like an immediate, I'm not getting out. And now I'm going to war and right. And I was like, Okay, yeah, of course. And just that like to be able to share that experience. 70 years apart, right that in a day in one day, your entire life changes course, by an event like that was just, I mean, it changed who I was for sure. And it changed how I looked at that things. So yeah, just proud of the work we're doing. And you know, just like everyone trying to figure out how to do it safely and smartly and making up right. Around the same boat. So yeah, well, you know, overall, a me just, you know, thank you for contributing to our community, the way that you're doing it, and reminding all of us that our stories matter. Like there are stories beyond the service member, and that's the family, the people that love them, as you said earlier. So thank you for, you know, doing that work that kind of reminds me of I was doing I was recently doing an interview where the host was like, so tell me about like your husband's service. And I like met him after his service. I was like, I was like, you can look him up like, this is my interview. I was like, I was like, I don't know. It's like, I don't know where he traveled, like, I'll spend the rest of my life figuring that out. But as of right now, like, I can't tell you his resume, okay, like, just look him up. But I said that in a very, like, humorous way. I'm not saying it as aggressively as I said it just now. But anyway, yes, our stories matter. And that's part of why we do the show is to remind people that our stories matter our needs matter, and to continue to share the resources that are available to us. So Amy, as we wrap up here, let people know how can they get ahold of you and learn more about the veteran spouse project, you can absolutely visit our website, it's www dot veteran spouse project.org. So that's the quickest, easiest way we have also have a very active Facebook page. So you can find us there the veteran spouse project, I will wait. And so those are probably the best two ways to get in touch with us. And yeah, we're hoping to roll out a whole bunch of things into 2021. So perfect. Fingers crossed, we all make it. Right. Let's see if we make this year. All right, so much for having me on. I appreciate it, you know, anytime I can talk to the project and the play and the workshops, and what we're doing just means so much to me. So I appreciate all of you who are, you know, creating opportunities to be able to, you know, share what we're doing and share what our work means to us. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, it's like you said, we're all in the same boat. We're all just trying to figure this out. And you know, this, podcasting is very therapeutic for me. So it's like, we're all like helping each other here. I think it's a win win situation for everyone. jennylyn. Any closing thoughts before I do my official closing statement?

Unknown Speaker: 34:46

No, you're good. Go ahead.

Jen Amos: 34:48

All right. Well, with that said, we hope that today's episode gave you one more piece of knowledge, resource or relevant story so you can continue to make confident and informed decisions for you and your family. We look forward to speaking with you in the next episode. Next time