093: The importance of community and representation of military stories on screen with James LaPorta

Jen Amos 0:00

Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the award winning podcast show holding down the fort. I am your co host, Jen mo is also a veteran spouse and goldstar daughter. And today I also have my amazing co host with me this episode wouldn't be possible if it wasn't for her. So Jenny Lynn stroupe, who is also an active duty military spouse, a mental health advocate, mom of two. Gentlemen, welcome back.

Unknown Speaker 0:20

Hey, thanks for having me. So glad to be here. Yeah. About today.

Jen Amos 0:25

Oh, yeah, I know, we're especially excited. We've been kind of texting back and forth about this for some time. So without any further ado, let me go ahead and bring on James Laporta, who is a former Marine infantryman, investigative reporter with the AP press and military advisor to NBC. This Is Us, James, thanks for joining us.

Unknown Speaker 0:42

Thanks for having me. Yeah,

Jen Amos 0:44

I just want to start off with just jennylyn. And James, how do you two know each other? How do you guys meet?

Unknown Speaker 0:50

Do you want me to feel this one? Or do you want to feel this one? James?

Speaker 1 0:54

I'll answer this. I bother her husband with questions about sort of her husband as a public affairs officer in the Navy. Yeah. And I sent him questions that he has to sort of like do I, you know, do I go to the boss with these questions today? Or do I wait till he's in a better mood? That that there's that sort of dynamic there between, you know, press relations and the journalists so that that's how we sort of know each other. So genuinely, how would you characterize how we

Unknown Speaker 1:27

know I mean, that that was pretty much it. We

Unknown Speaker 1:28

mentioned that's a professional. Yeah, yeah,

Speaker 2 1:31

we met James through a professional work relationship. But then through that, I actually wrote a piece for my own blog about an episode of This Is Us last year. And Matthew shared it with James and was like, my wife had a lot of thoughts and opinions on this and send it to him. And he was like, Oh, your thoughts and opinions are pretty dead on for that episode. And then we met him in LA last year to go tour the set of this as us and see all the things and hear about all this, how they put all the stories together. And so

Speaker 1 2:01

yeah, we're just like, chilling out. And like people's bedrooms. There's really

Unknown Speaker 2:05

no fun. Yeah,

Speaker 1 2:06

so like, the sets are built to scale. So like, you know, it doesn't feel like you're on a set, you feel like you're just in someone's bedroom. And so like, I think we're in K through when she was like a teenager. And so like on our we're like going through like CD album sound like Soundgarden, and, you know, like, if you should like AC DC or something like that. But it was weird because I didn't feel like I was on set. I felt like I was like, what's like, personal life, but it was pretty cool.

Jen Amos 2:35

Yeah, that sounds like really surreal.

Unknown Speaker 2:37

I mean, for me, it

Jen Amos 2:37

sounds really surreal to like, go on set with anything. So I'm sure that we're gonna dive in deeper into you know, just your personal experience, you know, working on set with NBC. You know, I

Speaker 1 2:47

should mention that was all back before COVID two. Oh, yeah. just weird. That was, by the way, like that. COVID wasn't even a thing. Yeah.

Speaker 2 2:55

Yeah, we actually went last Valentine's Day. So it was like probably the last really fun thing Matthew and I did before we got stuck in our house was going up to LA and James and got to see the things and they Matthew and James got to watch me totally geek out. When Christie Metz also came Pearson drove by in a golf cart, and it was really fun.

Jen Amos 3:20

Oh, man, that's always like, you know, like regular people like us who just see these celebrities on TV. It's like when you see them in person, like oh my god, you're real. It's like it's real. I can see you I'm in like your same space. But that must have been a really fun experience for you genuine,

Speaker 2 3:33

it has been confirmed that I have precisely zero chill that for all of the you know, Southern upbringing and reserve that I typically bring to the table if someone I really really respect and admire drives by in a golf cart, I am going to lose all ability to remain chill. And Matthew and James were like, what are you doing? And I'm like pointing but no words are coming out. And it was a lot of fun.

Jen Amos 3:55

Want to see genuine austrac

Unknown Speaker 3:58

I want to see what that looks like.

Speaker 1 4:00

She like stopped deadpan, like she saw before me and everybody was like what you? Like, you know, I didn't even didn't even click in my head. I was like, wait, who's driving by? And I was like, Oh, yeah. You know, and yeah, I didn't even register, you know. So yeah, that was a fun day.

Jen Amos 4:16

Yeah, no, for sure.

Unknown Speaker 4:18

Well, you

Jen Amos 4:18

know, obviously, that was like, Wow, well over a year ago, now that we're all talking about. Let's talk about today. Let's kind of fast forward to what life looks like for you today, James. So you know, as I mentioned, you are a veteran, former Marine infantry men, what led you into investigative reporting, and, you know, find your way with the Associated Press.

Speaker 1 4:36

er than I had expected. So in: 2014

Unknown Speaker 6:04

Yeah, I was gonna say it was like, Well, yeah.

Speaker 1 6:06

Yeah, I came over from I was the senior correspondent for Newsweek covering the same thing covering the military and national security and things like that. But really, the journalism thing, it's all a mistake. I mean, it's been a pleasant one. I mean, there there are definitely times in journalism where I don't want to be a journalist, because just the subject matter, itself, but But yeah, it's just sort of been a I guess, a happy accident.

Jen Amos 6:32

Yeah, no, definitely. Tell me what did you enjoy the most about your service? Getting out? No. told me you're not happy. That's why I wanted to know, like, you knew you like kind of, you

Speaker 1 6:45

know, I enjoyed the people. I've always had this like, weird thing about I love Marines sometimes don't like the institution. And I really do, like, separate those two things. I love some of the people that I met. They're all characters from just different walks of life and different backgrounds and stuff like that. So I really like the camaraderie, you know, that you find. I think that was probably my favorite part of serving just in general, you know, things like that.

Jen Amos 7:12

Yeah, know, for sure. And I hope you don't mind me bringing this up. But I do want to apologize for your loss. I know that a marine that you had served with recently. And that's hard. You know, I hear very often when veterans I mean, my husband's a veteran, and I hear very often in the veteran community that like the one place that felt like, you know, home, right, and community was in the military. And it's really hard to replicate that when you get out. Right. And so I just wanted to extend my condolences for your loss, because I imagine that that wasn't easy to know about.

Speaker 1 7:43

No, I appreciate that. It's actually something I worry about in terms of like, yeah, so I have like one list of names, which is like people that I served with in combat that died in combat, right. So I have that list. And then I have a completely different list, which is just people that I know, that are suicides that I either served with, or that I covered them at some point as a journalist. And I mean, one list is starting to get longer than the other one. And that's sort of, you know, it's interesting that you bring that up, the way I got hired under, this is us, it started with, I was a fan of the show, and I was really struck by how they were portraying the Vietnam War. And they were getting a lot of things just right about the Vietnam War. And I thought I was gonna, you know, I was gonna write about that, from a cultural standpoint, not so much the show itself, but what they were getting right. And usually, you don't really see too many depictions of Vietnam veterans on TV. So I wanted to write about that. But I bring that up, because about an hour before I was supposed to interview, Dan fogelman, who created the show, and Tim O'Brien, who wrote the book, the things they carry out of the Vietnam War, an hour before I got on the phone, I was told that another marine I knew had taken their own life. So just about an hour before the interview, and the interview was supposed to be about coming home from war and reintegrating back into, you know, life and things like that. And I lost it was really in and I felt professionally embarrassed as a journalist for sort of like breaking down crying over the phone, because I saw it as a me being unprofessional. But it was literally a parallel between what Vietnam veterans were going through and, you know, an Afghan veteran trend recently back into civilian society, you know, there was a parallel there. And so the end that's sort of how I got hooked up with this is us. It was broke down crying over the phone with them. And then I went on sort of apologizing profusely for having, you know, because I felt really embarrassed by it. But no, I appreciate you. extending your condolences. That means a lot. Yeah, I

Jen Amos 9:59

know. It's important. I know we didn't talk about this before we started. But it just felt really important to know like in asking you what you enjoyed the most about your service, and it's really that community. And knowing that that is almost the one thing that our veterans lose when they transition out. And it's really difficult. It really is like, even to this day, my husband's been out for almost 15 years. And he always goes back to that time when he had his unit, or he had friends when he was an active duty. And he hasn't been able to replicate that ever since. And so, you know, I think it's great of you to honor these Marines and the people you've worked with, by keeping that list, right, the people that you have lost, as well as those you have written about, and unfortunately, had taken their life. But I just felt like I had to throw that in there. If that's okay, you don't mind me doing that? No, no, no, no, it's not very relevant.

: 10:43

No, I mean, there's something about the military community, I've always been struck by how you can have complete enemies in the military community. But I mean, if push comes to shove, and you're in the middle of a crisis, even someone you completely hate or disregard, you will go out of your way to do whatever you need to for them. And they'll do the same thing for you. That's not really too much replicated in civilian communities. If someone doesn't like a civilian community, they're not going to do anything for you. Right. And that's sort of an interesting about the Military Committee. And the only other time I've sort of seen that replicated in civilian life is it's gonna be weird to say this, but I love covering hurricanes. So I've covered about three hurricanes. Now in my career, and all of that everything that divides us as a people goes away, sexual orientation, religion, racism, that all things that go to the wayside. It's all about like, us versus the storm, how can we best get through this together? That's one of the only times where I do see communities coming together as communities again, you know, and unfortunately, what happens is after the hurricane people do go sort of back to their domiciles. But I love covering hurricanes, because you do get to see that you see the best of humanity were the things that divide us to sort of go to the wayside at least.

Jen Amos: 12:03

So we need more hurricanes to bring this nation together. Not that we want it but you know.

Unknown Speaker: 12:12

But no, yeah, it's Yeah. I mean, that's,

Jen Amos: 12:15

that's an interesting perspective. never looked at it that way. I know, I've been asking all the questions here. So I thought I'd check in with genuine any thoughts.

: 12:21

I had just some really enjoying this conversation, and totally agree with the whole after tragedy, there is a resurgence of community. And I think, you know, James is right in saying like, we kind of experienced that on a advanced scale of the military, just simply because of the fast paced, ever changing lifestyle we lead. And so I do always find it, that the only time I really watch the news is after something has happened. And you get to hear the stories of people helping each other on a typical day to day, I'm not a news follower, because it's just too much bad. And I want to hear where people are coming together. And so I mean, I think that's a great analogy, like, No, we don't really want hurricanes, just like we don't really want more war, but also look at how well people get together when we have hard things to do.

Jen Amos: 13:11

Yeah, I never looked at it that way. Now I'm going to be mindful of like the news after a hurricane, like I never really paid attention. And that said, so thank you for sharing that perspective. James, let's go ahead and transition shift over to the work that you do with NBC. This is us. And I know one of the main points that even Jenny Lynn wanted to cover in our conversation today is the importance of seeing yourself on TV, maybe not literally. But you know, the stories. And so with your service, James, and maybe even the work you do today, with Avi press, how do you feel like that all comes together in the work that you do on this is us.

: 13:48

So I started writing about so I was a fan of the show from the beginning. But the Vietnam stuff really struck me. And that was before nobody knew that, you know, Brian had been hired by this is us to write for the Vietnam stuff. And so this is going back to 2018. And again, I was really struck by how much they were getting right about the Vietnam War. I mean, someone somewhere was doing, I mean, was really doing their due diligence and research. And that's where I thought maybe there's a story, it turns out there was they hired, you know, someone who their book has won the National Book Award, and their book is nominated for the Pulitzer. You know, and so after I wrote that article, you know, Dan, he, you know, said, like, Look, if you're ever in LA, stop, I would love to, you know, talk to you in person and turn around and, and I just happened to be in LA. And, you know, it was one of those things where, like, you know, how sometimes people were just being nice, and you don't know if they're like, they really mean, you don't say like they extend the invitation, but they're doing they're just doing it out of the moment. Yeah. And so I was like, maybe he was just being nice, but then there was part of like, well, maybe he is, maybe he's actually meaningful in terms of inviting anyways, it was wasn't just sort of like something that he threw out there. Yeah, like, Yeah, he really meant it. He was like, if you're in LA, let me know. And so I went over to the studio. And, you know, he showed me around, you know, the sets and basically the same tour he gave gave Jimmy. And, you know, he wanted me to talk to the writers for about 15 minutes. And that 15 minutes turned into two hours. And it was it was out of that, that we sort of started creating this character, who became Cassie sharp on season four of This Is Us. But in terms of representation on film, and stuff like that, right around that time, in January of 2019, there was a woman, her name is a Senior Chief, chana kinte, she was a US Navy, she was serving in special operations. She was on a patrol in Syria, and was killed by a suicide bomber. And the one thing that came out of that I remember was people were sort of struck to see a woman in Special Operations, and certain was special operation forces. I think she was with a greenbrae team, as well sort of strip on that, you know, people who cover the military or not, you know, we sort of know that women have been serving in Special Operations for a while, but the larger general population, right, I guess, was not aware of this. And so when we started to, you know, create this character, even though the character was based on me, and my military experience, the thought was almost like, maybe we should make her a woman. And the fact that there's a, I was thinking of this sort of, sort of reaction that the general public was having to sort of being surprised by a woman serving in Special Operations and who had been serving in Special Operations for almost the majority of her career. Her husband is also a greenbrae, as well, I think he's now running for Congress, if I'm not mistaken, but nice. So that's really how Cassidy sharp became castling sharp, and you know, US depicting a veteran who was a woman, it was because did seem to be a lack of representation on screen. So that's sort of how it came about. That's a very long version of, of how it came to be.

Unknown Speaker: 17:09

Yeah, go ahead. jennylyn. No, I

: 17:11

mean, and this is where James and I start to overlap is Matthew and I were at a two week, counseling intensive in Colorado the night that this is us premiered. And we watched it. And they introduced Cassidy sharp, and he and I were sitting on the couch in this hotel room in Colorado at this, this retreat, watching this show. And we both watched it in complete silence, like even on the commercials, it was almost like I can't breathe, because it was the first time that I as a spouse had seen my story on TV. And he also was like, holy crap. That's what it looked like. The reintegration piece. Like that particular episode starts with like a coming home party and parade and then what it looks like posts coming home. And, you know, he was like, Oh, my God, like, I could have been her sitting in that car like that awkward. And it was just done so well, that like, we were already big fans of the show, too. Obviously, we were watching for premiere. But you know, that really for us when they started interweaving the post 911 storyline was really, and it's so closely mirrored our story that it was really impactful. And so an article came out not too long after that about James being the writer, and Matthew was like, wait, I know that guy. And so then we then we kind of got connected because then I, I wrote a piece actually about how I was displeased about how spouses were represented on one of the episodes, we were kind of diminished to the critical, I forget the exact wording, but basically, we reduced to like critical and overbearing, and I really wrote that like it may often look that way. But it's really from a place of like love and caring and having known somebody for so long to know the before and the after. So Matthew, that piece to James and we got talking and then he's like, Hey, come on up to LA. And I mean, it's just been it's, for us as a family, it has been really good to see both sides. Because when you're in it, it's really hard to know what it looks like for the other person. And I think that's what at least that particular storyline did for us was gave us both like the that was harder for you than I would have assumed. Yeah.

Jen Amos: 19:37

Wow. Well, genuine. Thank you for talking through that.

: 19:41

Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. I was gonna say, you know, I'm wondering, hopefully your audience knows the storyline, but the storyline is really like oh, now

Unknown Speaker: 19:49

they have to

: 19:51

the storyline is about a loss of purpose. I mean, that's, and that's the storyline everybody can relate to. Regardless if you're in the military or not in the military. Everybody is Sort of search for what is their purpose in life. And some people have found it and lost it, and some people are still searching. And so that's sort of what she goes through, she had a purpose in her life, which was, you know, she really liked her job. And now all of a sudden, she finds herself home from Afghanistan after a rough deployment. And you know, she has this line. We see her later in therapy at the vet center. And she has this line about, you know, I went from, you know, leading classified missions in Afghanistan to driving around kids on a Saturday night for Uber, that's a direct line, if something I said from the I still go to the Vet Center, which is true, I did the same thing. I was working in classified settings in Afghanistan, and I then went to being an Uber driver. And then just her spouse having to, you know, the one thing that always struck me was, I mean, every sort of marriage has arguments over the bills. But I feel like that's almost a focal point for a lot of military families, especially when it's that, you know, the husband usually takes care of the bills, but then he goes on deployment, or she goes on deployment, and they pass that sort of Bill paying off to the spouse, and they come back thinking that they're just going to be able to pick that up. But spouses have already been, they've already sort of put into a plan into place that works for the household. And that almost becomes something that seems very small and meaningless, all of a sudden, can become a contention point that can blow up. Yeah, and cause a lot of resentment in marriage, something as small as just who pays the bills, you know, which is something we also show they have a fight over, you know, Bill paying, or a lack of Bill paying,

Jen Amos: 21:42

that reminds me of a recent article of yours genuine about reintegration, and you're like, you know, the Matthew, like, Hey, what are you doing? What are you doing messing up my system? Like I,

Unknown Speaker: 21:50

you know, and

Jen Amos: 21:51

it's hard, it's hard, because it's like, you were able to hold your own for so long. And then he comes back in no offense. We love Matthew, of course.

Unknown Speaker: 21:58

You know, it's

Jen Amos: 21:58

just that it's just that disruption, right? Or, you know, in terms of the theme here of reintegration of like, how difficult it really is. And so, it's really just nice to kind of witness Jenny Lynn just kind of talking through how much that storyline touched her. And I think that's the impact of having our stories seen on TV, right is like being told, right? Is like feeling like, wow, like, I'm noticed, like, my struggles are being noticed being recognized. And, and then to be able to speak that on a mass scale of having that, you know, universal theme of like, Hey, everyone can experience a loss of purpose. I just love the artistry of that, you know, to get so specific and yet be so universal at the same time.

: 22:38

Yeah, the goal was definitely I didn't want anything to go into her storyline that I cannot tie to someone's personal experience, or even some statistic. You know, so like there is, hopefully I'm not giving away spoilers, but there's a moment where she accidentally hits her son, I wanted even something to like the smallest that to be tied to a statistic. And I did I research studies that found that there was a study that was done about child abuse in the home. And you know, the situation we depict in the episode is not so much child abuse, it was an accident, he was having sort of a flashback to Afghanistan. But the one statistic that I found was that they found that women servicemembers who are about to deploy child abuse tend to go up in those households six months prior. And for men, it tends to go up six months after they've come back from deployment. Wow. So if it's something like that, I want everything to tie to a real life thing to a statistic to an expert. And if it if it didn't occur in real life, I didn't want it in the storyline. And luckily, the executive producers of the show sort of gave me carte blanche to say yes or no to whatever, you know, like this would happen to no this would not happen and they would just would not happen. They would find out another way to write it. Or another way to you know, film it or whatever. So it was also them sort of placing their trust to me with her show, you know, who could have been like,

Jen Amos: 24:09

that is true wink wink, you

: 24:11

know? Yeah, well, I mean, the, you know, the night when the episode was, you know, because it's not just one episode. It's I think she's got like a six episode arc or something like that. But the first night I was, you know, people were like, Are you excited? And I said, No, I was I was incredibly nervous. Yeah, you know, because the veteran community can be ruthless.

Unknown Speaker: 24:34

When it comes to depictions of the military on screen, hence Jacqueline's other article.

: 24:41

And so I became almost obsessive about it. So like, even before we started filming, our writing scripts or anything, I think I wrote, like a 30 or 40 page document of how to do everything. Like here's what the hairstyles need to look like. Here's how her ribbons need to look. Here's how the uniforms Take a look, here's a kind of gear that every marine needs to have. I mean, I really was really sort of worried about how it would be perceived by veterans. Because I really thought I was gonna get picked apart. Yeah. So I was trying everything I could to prevent that, you know?

Jen Amos: 25:19

Well, bravo because it sounds like you did a great job. Right, gentlemen?

: 25:25

Yeah, well, I mean, yes, because unfortunately, I mean, coming from my own personal story, a lot of big name movies about post 911 bets came out in the time where we were experiencing a lot of post 911 traumatic stress at our house. And, you know, one in particular came out and build it as a, it's a lot about the family life. And so I had already had a bad experience with one of those post 911 movies. And I was like, yeah, I'm out, like, probably forever, like, never gonna watch another one can't do it. And then this one came out and all the press about it was like, you really get to see what the family life was like. And I thought, yes, like, we're gonna be like, it was so much sand. There was more sand in that movie than anything else. And I was like, yeah, that is not. That's not actually what family life and the family portion was so small, and then also so misrepresented. Like, we were watching it up in an area that does not have any active duty military. And so that kind of made Matthew now like the de facto experts for people. And they were like, so like, Matthew had a soft phone, and you got to call him No, no, that's not a thing. Like those are for emergencies. Calling about your going into labor is not an emergency in the military. Yeah. And so to then have something that was so well done, and so well done from both sides that both my active duty service member and myself as a spouse went, Wow, they really got that right speaks volumes to me, because a lot of it, I mean, James is right to be worried about being picked apart. Because a lot of people get it wrong. They're not as thorough and they're not as thoughtful about the depiction, you know, a lot of it's about, like the cool gear and the cool guy stuff. And it swings one of two ways. Either they come home a villain, because if you DSD, or they come home a hero because they're wearing uniform. And really the truth is, there's a mix of both. It's really a middle,

Jen Amos: 27:29

and everyday and everything in between, right. Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's very interesting how, and we talked about this before, I think with Abby Ray with legacy magazine that, you know, very often media will over dramatize or romanticize military life. And so, to be able to really talk about tell the story truthfully, it's powerful. And I can understand at least from your perspective, genuine like, why it was so emotional for you and Matthew to just watch, you know, and not even talk to each other during the commercials because of how impactful it was for you to see that. Yeah,

: 28:02

I would say, if I remember correctly, we had even more conversations about how to depict post traumatic stress than we did how to to accurately depict the military. Like the military part was sort of easy. Yeah, you get the right gear, you get the right uniforms, you sort of basically teach them how to walk and talk. But posttraumatic stress is all more complicated. Yeah. And I remember one of the questions. It was either Dan or one of the other writers in the room, I can't remember but one of them did ask me like one of the first questions about postmodern stress was what annoys you about Hollywood portrays posttraumatic stress and coming home from war. And it was almost what Jeannie said, I said, we're either incredibly heroic, or we're incredibly broken. I said, You're either one extreme or the other. And neither is true. And the example I pretty much gave was, I was like, you know, people would push my chest, they still have lives that they have to live, they still have bills that they have to pay. They can't just, you know, be so incredibly broken, that they're laying in bed all day, having flashback after flashback like that's not how it works.

Unknown Speaker: 29:10

Yeah, they got kids raised to

: 29:12

Yeah, they still have to live normal functioning lives, while working through that post traumatic stress. And so that was something, you know, I was also very worried about not wanting to have another depiction of those extremes, because that's not what push my stress is. Yeah, you know, and I also wanted to show that it's treatable, that it's not this lifelong diagnosis, that you can, you know, find help, which is why we started, you know, we show the bed center. Yeah. And that's from personal experience. I mean, while I was in the military, I did have difficulty finding mental health services, you know, like a station at Parris Island. between 2010 and 2012, teaching recruits how to shoot and parasol. And it's also a place where like, it's a Training Command. So nobody's really deploying downrange. And so it's time for you to sort of get, you know, mental health services. But the problem is, is you have 50,000 Marines who are permanent personnel. And you might only have two or three therapists who are working multiple bases. So not only do they serve the training depot, they also serve the air station that was right up the road. So you would have one appointment. And you know, your next therapy appointment was maybe two, three months down the road. Yeah. And it just wasn't consistent enough. Once I got learned about what the bed center was, because nobody told me what the bed center was, it was wonderful. Yeah, I saw my mental health, dramatically improving. So that's why we haven't gone to the vets.

Jen Amos: 30:53

Get help me stress it enough. I spoke at a conference like almost two weeks ago now. And I wrapped up by saying like veterans get helped Do it, do it for yourself, do it for your spouse, do it for your family, you know, your kids, like just Just do it. Like there's, there's a lot of available resources today. Okay. And if you don't know where to start, like, ask me as you know, it's a genuine, you know, like, there are people who want to help you. And so I love that I love that you stress that importance, and also how, you know, again, incorporating that into Cassidy's story as well.

: 31:25

Yeah, well, the other thing about our story was, I wanted to show that post traumatic triggers are the worst ones are usually the ones you don't expect at all that have nothing to do with war itself. You know, most people know, I guess, you know, like fireworks on the Fourth of July, or maybe like a car backfiring or something like that. But those are not the worst ones. It's the ones that are almost like ambushes that you don't see. And so the one that we created a hurt was born out of one of my own experiences. But in her story, she's going after a guy and there's a drone strike. And unfortunately, that drone strike happened to kill Afghans that they did not intend to kill. And so she also had to go and pay cert payments, which is a real thing. And they're not meant to put $1 amount on someone's life. They're they're meant as condolence payments. But unfortunately, that's what happens. It does sort of put $1 amount in someone's life. And during that time in Afghanistan, it's sort of the max payout was 12 $100 per family. So what her trigger becomes, is that after she gets out of the military, her and her husband are having this argument over paying the bills, and her husband just happens to mention, by the way, the hot water heater broke again, and that the cost of the hot water heater costs more than what she paid for someone's life. Wow, gana, Stan. And that was sort of her trigger. Yeah, something completely not related to war. Yeah, that triggered that memory in her, you know. So we also, you know, show that that I think, you know, people watching it would, you know, anybody who's had post traumatic stress could relate to in terms of like, it's these, it's usually like these things that you don't even see or you don't even think about that they would be related to trauma.

Jen Amos: 33:14

Yeah, you know, James, with your work, it's people like you that gave me hope for Hollywood, and telling real storytelling, so or good storytelling. So I just, you know, want to take this moment to thank you, you know, thank you for what you're doing your your hard work and the research, maybe that anxiety of perfecting it, because again, we can be easily misrepresented on screen. And yeah, I'm just I'm taking it all in, you know, just kind of hearing you and genuine talk. So genuine, any thoughts?

: 33:43

I think if I had talked much more, I'm probably going to cry uncontrollably. Because

: 33:49

I've heard your wall. I mean, that's sort of the rule. Right? If you're talking about this is obviously after

: 33:55

twice. I mean, can you watch that show without tearing up? First of all, there's very,

: 34:00

I have friends of mine who have tried to get to watch the show, and they refuse because they know it'll make them cry.

Unknown Speaker: 34:05

Like, I don't want to cry on Tuesday nights. No, thank you.

: 34:07

Right, that. I mean, that's exactly what they don't watch is because you don't want to cry.

: 34:11

You know? Yeah. No, I mean, I just I also am incredibly grateful to know that that in part because of the work you do, like, you know, as a journalist, like it really reflects and what you do for Hollywood and yeah, you know, yeah, for sure. It just means a lot to me.

Unknown Speaker: 34:29

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker: 34:29

I appreciate that. You okay.

Unknown Speaker: 34:32

Yeah.

Unknown Speaker: 34:36

checking in on each other now.

: 34:37

We've met I know, there's not much I talked about that I don't cry over, especially military, mental health. I mean, I do this as a job and tear up in like meetings because it's so important to me that people get the help they need and,

Unknown Speaker: 34:52

yeah, it's okay not to be okay. Right.

Jen Amos: 34:55

That's right. That's right. Right. And so you know, James, with everything that you have done. So far, what are you most proud of? You know, what are you most proud of in this journey of, you know, maybe this representation military families? What are you most proud of?

Unknown Speaker: 35:08

Oh, Jesus.

Jen Amos: 35:10

Question. I know, I was like, man, I should phrase that differently. But like, it just seems like you've done so much good work, you know, and you should get recognized for it. But you let me know, you know, what, what's kind of that personal win for you? Like, yeah, I did that.

: 35:25

It's hard to say on one thing, yeah. But there have been several moments where I've been able to give voice to someone who felt like they didn't have one. Yeah. And this is speaking more to my job at just in journals. I've had to interview a lot of Gold Star families, about losing loved ones and war, about losing loved ones and training. And in fact, as soon as we get off this call, I have to speak to another gold star father, about his son who died in a training accident. And so even if a story doesn't come out of it, because sometimes that happens, you know, not everything is news, but I will say that they, they do feel heard. And sometimes that's the most important thing is, okay. Yeah, there's been several times where I've gotten to at least give voice to, to an issue or to an individual who really deserved it, you know, to elevate a voice that was either being oppressed or a voice that was just not being listened to, in a sense, you know, I take a lot of pride, as painful as they are, I do take a lot of pride in how I handle stories where someone, usually it's like someone's been killed in combat. And usually I know who it is, before the Defense Department is sending me thing. I make an appoint, I don't publish until the Defense Department says something. Now I could, I could go ahead and do a story I wanted to. But I think that would be wrong, because I know that they're going through the process of going to someone's house and shattering that family permanently. And I don't want to interrupt that process. And it would be wrong. So that's the first part of how I sort of take care of that story. But the second part is, anytime I'm writing about someone killed in combat or training accident, I don't want it to be reduced to a statistic or a number. I really do want to Who is this person beyond? Justin serving in uniform? What made them them? You know, I think I take a lot of pride in doing those stories. And I still do those stories. Even though as an investigative journalist, I don't really need to do those stories anymore. They're not really my job to do those stories anymore. But every once in a while, if I can, I still like to do them, because it keeps me in touch with why I became a journalist in the first place with the people that I'm covering, if that makes sense. That's a long answer that I don't know if that answers your question.

Jen Amos: 37:59

I think it's a beautiful answer. I mean, that pulled my heartstrings. You know, just like as a gold star daughter, and you hear like you just going out of your way to make this gold star father that you're going to talk to next, like feel heard. And sometimes that's just what people need. Even like, it's not even about what gets published, if it ever gets published. It's like, Oh, you want to hear my story? You know, because for myself, I think about, you know, once we lost dad, like it was as if he never existed for 20 plus years, it was only until, you know, the recent about a handful years ago, when I started working with my husband, who's a veteran, and we work in the military community, where I had to kind of own my identity is a gold star daughter in this community. And it was a really hard thing for me to do to kind of go back 20 years and really, you know, try to unpack like, what that was like. I've recently, like, started to hear more about nonprofits that support Gold Star families. And I imagine that, you know, I mean, the way that I feel about these nonprofits is I'm sure the way that these Gold Star family members that you talk to feel is they feel heard, they feel like they weren't forgotten at the end of the day. And I just want to thank you for that. You know, and I think that's a very valid pride point, you know, to really represent the military life beyond the uniform. It's more than just the uniform, right? It's more than just the romanticization dramatization, heroism of the military. It's the tragedy, the sacrifice, like the PTSD, all that real stuff, you know, that a lot of our civilian counterparts don't get to see very often. So thank you. Thank you, James. Appreciate.

: 39:31

Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah. I mean, and thank you for what you guys are doing, because I mean, you guys are doing I mean, what I do is not different than what you guys are doing right now. It's the exact same thing. It is representation. Yeah. And representation is so important. I mean, I mean, creating the character of Cassidy sharp, I mean, Jenny saw or self represented, and how many times have you not seen herself represented? How many times where it got it wrong in some sort of way. You know, you know, for entertainment value or whatever, you know. So I mean representation. I mean, it significantly matters, you know, so, yeah, well, I'm gonna start.

Jen Amos: 40:15

I was like, You know what, maybe we should just be a whole crying fest. But no, no, I'll definitely end on a lighter note here. James, again, just thank you so much for being on our show. Gentlemen, thanks for bringing on James, by the way, like, What a treat that we had today, you know, just indulge in this conversation.

: 40:29

I mean, I just think this conversation kind of nailed, well, the holding down the fort wickets of like military life, mental health, good story community like this really brought it all together. And I am eternally grateful that my military life brought James into my life so that we could have these conversations and like, really talk about these things. So I think, you know, this was a good conversation for the books here at holding down the fort where, you know, story, community and mental health matter.

Jen Amos: 41:02

Yeah. Wow. So feel good right now? Well, again, well, James, obviously, we have lives and you have more stories to write and represent. But before we go, and this will be included in the show notes, but let people know like, what's the easiest way to get ahold of you if they want to reach out?

: 41:16

I'm on Twitter. I spend way more time on Twitter than I probably shouldn't. I was

Unknown Speaker: 41:21

gonna say 60k follow? Sounds like

: 41:24

Yeah, yeah. So I'm at Jim Laporta, on Twitter. I'm on Facebook at real James Laporta. But I don't update much. Twitter nowadays. My diems are open, you know, you know, so just shoot me a message. And I'll, so I'll be there.

Unknown Speaker: 41:41

Awesome.

Unknown Speaker: 41:42

Definitely on Twitter, at least as

Jen Amos: 41:47

well. So I like tweet you and y'all probably get a response from you right away.

Unknown Speaker: 41:52

I mean, yeah, I mean, I do monitor pretty well,

Jen Amos: 41:54

that's a very journalist thing. So I wouldn't expect anything less from a journalist. So I

Unknown Speaker: 42:00

pretty much my whole Twitter feed. It's like Paul, James Paul.

: 42:06

I know I'm starting to see Paul's stuff all the time. Now. Obviously, it's like if you click the algorithms like,

Unknown Speaker: 42:11

obviously right

Jen Amos: 42:12

now, but awesome. Well, James, again, thank you so much for being here on a holding down the fort. This was very heartfelt, so needed and it affirms what Jenny Lynn and I are doing on this show, which is really to bring voice to our military families. So thank you for doing your part as well in Hollywood, and jennylyn. Thank you again for bringing on James and for co hosting with me. Absolutely.