094: Sisterhood, mental health and thriving in chaos with Elaine Brewer, Teresa Shick & Jessica Silva

Jen Amos 0:00

All right. Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the award winning podcast show holding down the fort. I am your host flying solo today genuine, unfortunately couldn't make it but that's okay. I'm your host goldstar daughter as well as veteran spouse. And I'm just really, really excited to be here today because I get to chat with some incredible women. Let me start by bringing on military spouse of 15 years fitness and wellness professional and founder of humble warrior wellness, Elaine Brewer. She is also an advocate for mental health and wellness for veterans and first responders. And she's a mom of two boys.

Unknown Speaker 0:33

Elaine,

Jen Amos 0:33

welcome to the show. Hey,

Unknown Speaker 0:35

Jen, thanks for having me.

Jen Amos 0:37

Yeah, for sure. We were introduced to each other through Trevor. So let me know how do you two know each other.

Speaker 1 0:42

So Trevor worked with Heath I think when they were at mobile unit two. They're both former EOD techs. So way back in the day, and then when I was kind of devising my board of directors for humble warrior, his name came up and he kind of came back into the picture after all these years. So that's kind of how Trevor got in the mix of all this.

Jen Amos 1:06

Yeah, I love it. I know that you and I have been talking back and forth for months now to get on the show, and I'm just so glad that it came at the time that it did, because you brought some friends with us today.

Unknown Speaker 1:17

I did. Yes.

Jen Amos 1:19

Yeah. So let me go ahead and bring them on. Let me go ahead and bring on Teresa Schick, who is a military spouse now retired, her husband served as a Navy SEAL for 24 years. She also is the founder of the pillar Foundation, and is a mom of four. Teresa, welcome

Speaker 2 1:33

to the show. Hi, thanks so much for having me. Yes, I

Jen Amos 1:36

know we were having like technical issues before we started, but we worked out it worked out.

Unknown Speaker 1:41

Yeah, I can hear you guys and I can sort of see you. So

Jen Amos 1:45

there you go. And last but not least, we have Jessica Silva, who has been a military spouse for 20 years, currently working through her husband's retirement right now. Also an instructor of the Oh 2x human performance workshops, and author of the children's book about deployment, which is called daddy's on a chip. She also has an Etsy store Jessica Silva books on Etsy, and has two adult kids 20 and 24, who are no longer in the house, and she's very happy about it. Jessica, welcome to the show.

Unknown Speaker 2:13

Hello, thanks for having me.

Jen Amos 2:15

Yeah, absolutely. Well, yeah, it's so great to have all of you, Elaine, I thought I just start with you sharing? How do you know everyone and what compelled you to bring them all on our show with

Speaker 1 2:24

you? Well, so all of our husbands were formerly at the same command together, both of their husbands are seals and my husband was kind of the bomb tech, and one of the bomb texts on the team. And Theresa and my husband, they were actually on like the same I guess, team team. And she was my on buds Minh. And then I was introduced to Jessica, through that. And Jessica is also on my board of directors. And yeah, we've done another podcast together. And that was kind of I didn't actually follow through because there was technical audio and video difficulties. So it had to get trashed. So we just kind of wanted to give it round two, because I think we all have a lot of insight on what it means to be holding down the fort and just be a military spouses and just kind of know about what this crazy world kind of brings.

Jen Amos 3:25

Yeah, awesome. And I'm just really excited to get into this conversation today. I know that all three of you are a wealth of knowledge and are all accomplished in your own right. And so it'd be really cool to start diving into, you know, each of your stories individually. So Jessica Silva has been a military spouse the longest here, according to my notes. So Jessica, what compelled you to say yes, I will join you, Elaine, to be part of this conversation today.

Speaker 3 3:49

I think just between the three of us, we have so much experience that news fast as coming into this life. You know, our technology may be advanced and programs may be advanced, but the lifestyle is similar. And I think we just have so much knowledge and experience that we'd like to pay it forward and not have new spouses reinventing the wheel, so to speak, you know, and if you learn even one thing from us, like, that makes your life better than we've done a great job, you know, and just kind of like What to Expect When You're Expecting, you know, military version. I don't know, I think I've learned a lot over the last two decades. And I would love to share that knowledge to make somebody else's experience easier.

Jen Amos 4:34

Yeah, you know, when I think back on just growing up as a military child for the first 10 years, and this was in the 80s and 90s. At the time, it wasn't very much about knowing what was available. It was really more so about going through the motions so much that when we had lost my dad, our life just catapulted back to civilian life. And it was very, I guess, traumatic. You know, to say the least of like life had already felt sudden every two weeks Three years of moving. And then once we got out, it was as if, you know, our whole military experience didn't exist, it was just Mom, you know, a widow raising three kids under 11, just focusing on surviving and taking care of the kids. And so it really took me 20 plus years later to, you know, do a show, such as holding down the fort, to be aware of what has been available this whole time that I just wasn't even aware of. But it does take people such as ourselves here, or you three today to bring that awareness. Because, you know, otherwise, it is very easy, I think, to be to feel isolated in this military life. And so I'm just really glad, Jessica, that you're here today to join us and pay it forward, especially to the new spouses entering this life. So Teresa, welcome to the show. And let us know what compelled you to also say yes, to join these ladies in our conversation today.

Speaker 2 5:48

Well, much like Elaine had said, we did this previous podcast that was gold, as far as I'm concerned on what the conversation was had. And the podcast host was former seal. And so it was just interesting, I think, sharing the female perspective, the spouse perspective with him. Yeah. And so much that he has sent us a lot of what we said in his other podcasts, like we've really had good knowledge, but we just wanted to have another platform. And I have listened to several of your podcasts. And it does seem like this is just the perfect fit because of who listens. I just listened to your season spouse, one with Jin Lindquist or and that we're seasoned spouses. I think like Jessica said, we have so much knowledge and we have so much history together. And our husbands have the history together. And I think we just have so much to say and have a know so much. But these women, these new women or the spouses that are about to transition, don't even know what's about to happen to them. So you know, I think it's important that this stuff gets out there. Yeah,

Jen Amos 6:45

well, awesome. Well, thank you all so much for being on the show and starting this conversation with me. So the first question I want to ask all of you individually, starting with Elaine is when you entered the military life, were you expecting it to turn out the way that it turned out

Speaker 1 7:00

d. And he kind of went off in: 2003

Jen Amos 8:49

yeah, it was like what the hell every three to five years or something, right? Like every new season, you're like, Whoa, this is still happening. This is still unpredictable. I was talking to Jennifer pesc wall, this season spouse, I was on our show, and primarily focuses on seasoned spouses that like there's this pressure to feel like you've had it like figured out by now, because you've been in the service for so long, but it's still very much a guessing game, you know, for the most part and just kind of, yeah, just indicative of that military life. So but here you are, you've made it 15 years. And I'm just really excited to get into just the wealth of knowledge and wisdom that you have to share with us. Theresa, I want to start with you next. When you enter the military life. Are you expecting it to turn out the way that maybe you thought at the time or did you even think about it until, you know, tell us were the early stages?

Speaker 2 9:38

Oh, uh huh. I was 17. So this was you know, in 93 when I met my husband, so pre war, you know, after Desert Storm like it was just this weird time of peace, I suppose. But I was in high school when I met him and then once I finally actually joined him in San Diego, it was still pre war and it was regular deployments and You know, happy go lucky we live weird double income no kids living in San Diego. So I think what I didn't I expected that I didn't expect was more, you know, and the loss of life that happened after and friendships that were made because of that. And my best friend's husband was killed early in the war. So no, none of that was expected. And I mean, complete and total shock. But it quickly became normal, which is sad. But no, I'm not from a military family. I know one of my family. I don't have had like a brother in law that would have been Marines for four years. So I really, I didn't know what I didn't know, I suppose. I don't think anyone's story is what they expected. certainly hasn't been boring.

Unknown Speaker: 10:43

hasn't been boring to say the least.

: 10:45

Yeah, has important we made it which is the three of us all being married bill is we almost count on one hand who is still married after retirement. So they feel that we're all still married.

Jen Amos: 10:55

Yeah, no, that's a that's a great accomplishment. And I have to correct myself. I mentioned Teresa, you know, your husband had served for 24 years. But Jessica, you've been in been a military spouse for 27. So I want to make sure that to acknowledge that you are the most seasoned spouse of all in our group. But let us know if you can go way back when you know, decades ago, when you entered the millet, I'm not to age you. Oh my gosh, that's a really rude I'm so sorry. But to go back, you're wise beyond? Well, I really need to come up with a better idea.

Unknown Speaker: 11:24

Am I here?

Jen Amos: 11:25

Now? Yeah, but let us know. 27 years ago, like were you expecting? Did you have any expectations? And what did you come to realize, I guess, in entering the military life.

: 11:36

So for the record, my husband was in for 27 years, but we have been married for 22. So I that's Teresa and I are like on the same page here. So my husband and I knew each other in high school, but we didn't really date or anything until later. So we got married in 99. And he had already been a seal for five years. And you know, he had gone to Korea and Guam and Thailand and had fun, you know, and all those places. So when we got married, we immediately moved from San Diego to Virginia, like a month after we got married. So it was new environment, new house, new friends, you know, and stuff like that. So, you know, it was a good year. And then 911 happened. And you know, I was a dispatcher for 911 at the time. So I actually was in the command in where I worked watching it happen on CNN, it was just a really weird time. But it seemed like after that just for the next 20 years, you know, you're just complete and utter chaos. And I'm sure all of us can say that there's a lot of those pieces of those years that we don't remember. It was like hanging by our little thread, you know, when things were tumbling and happening, and you're just kind of thrown into these situations. And that's where you really find out what kind of person you are because you are in reaction mode all the time. And, you know, you end up with, you know, adrenal fatigue, and your kids are young, and you're juggling your life and you're worried about your husband and you're not sleeping and you're drinking too much. And you stress run, you know, you just run out the house like Ah, so I don't think during any of it, we were wondering, like, how are we doing? How are we handling all these things you just do. And you get into that mode of just doing and when you stop that mode, you're at a loss, you have no idea how to handle your life anymore, because you've just been reactive for so long. So yeah, I had no idea what to expect. I was like, Oh, he's in the military. Like, he's a seal. I didn't even know what that means. You know, you remember that movie Navy SEALs with Charlie Sheen?

Unknown Speaker: 13:45

Never heard of it?

: 13:49

You know, we had all seen that movie, I'm sure. And that's what we thought. But yeah, surprise.

Jen Amos: 13:55

Yeah, it is quite interesting how media, Hollywood, and even just how our civilian counterparts perceive the military life or even the life of first responders. It's either romanticize or dramatize, right. But we don't necessarily talk about everything in between, you know, the constant, like you said, the constant reaction mode of like, as a reaction slash survival mode of just trying to get through next day. And, and it's almost a luxury to pause for a second and reflect and ask yourself, How am I really feeling right now? It's like, how is that? How is that going to serve you in a time when like, you have to be very responsive to your circumstances. And so, you know, it's good to kind of unveil that mask and really show the reality of, you know, how difficult military life can be. Yeah, so roller coaster. Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, I know that we all are here today because there are a couple of themes and lessons that you all want to share today for the fellow spouses that listened to the show as well as the new ones who let's say just got engaged just got married as dating service member. And you know, maybe in the early stages, it seems so sexy to, like, have a sailor or so soldier, you know, join the military. But you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of realities and challenges that come with that, you know, perceived sexy, you know, title of wanting to, you know, serving our country. And so let's go ahead and start talking about since you all are mothers, let's open up with the topic of family. And we can start with you, Elaine, like, how have you and your family been able to, I guess, navigate this military life? Like, was it kind of just like what Jessica said? Was it kind of like, just be reactionary, and just try to survive? Was it seasonal? Like, were there some times where you didn't have to be reactionary, but you could reflect? Just give us like, your initial thoughts on you know, what it's like to be I know, I said a lot, but what it's like to be a military family.

: 15:50

Yeah, I mean, I think Jessica kind of hit the nail on the head. I had my son. Well, my husband was screening for the command. So it's kind of like their, what is it like recruitment selection process. So I got pregnant during that time. And then, six months into having a kid, we had a horrific helicopter, not crash, it was shot down by an RPG, and everybody on board perished in that. And so that was kind of the beginning of my family life experience. I'm creating a family in the military was always kind of chaos kind of came with everything. So being reactionary. On top of that, the deployment tempo was extremely tough. They were gone, either deploying or doing workups or training constantly. So they weren't home a lot. So yeah, I mean, I was always very reactionary. I think that you know, your husbands are in that fight or flight response. And so were you. And like, Jessica was saying, you can't really, you're not really clocking memories, emotional awareness has kind of gone out the window, you're really just trying to get through every day, get the kids out, get dinner on the table, hopefully, you can get some sleep that night, you know, and I can see now that I really, I can't deal with just sitting around and not doing anything, I've kind of learned my whole adult life to kind of thrive in chaos. And like, even now, like during this pandemic, it's like everybody, just slow down, and, you know, enjoy your family. And I'm like, I'm going to start a nonprofit, and I'm going to get a puppy and I'm, like, you know, my husband's gonna start a new career as well. And it's just like, we can't just sit and chill, because, you know, I don't know, that's just not what we do. So I just think that it's very funny that, you know, Jessica was saying that because I think all three of us would kind of say yes, and nod our head to living in chaos is kind of where we're comfortable.

Jen Amos: 18:04

Yeah. And you know, just speaking from the perspective of an adult military child, I thrive in chaos. Still, there was a point in my young 20s, where in college, I changed my major three times. And then I got fired from four jobs because I just couldn't hold one down. I couldn't fathom the idea of being stable somewhere. And I've been an entrepreneur for the last decade, and I'm currently on my third business venture. And I really credit that to my military life of just moving around every two to three years and just this constant restlessness. At first, I thought that was a problem. I thought I was, you know, I thought that I was scatterbrained, I thought that I couldn't commit to anything. But just like what you said, a lane, I came to a place where I just learned to thrive in chaos. I just learned this is just who I am, like, I seem to enjoy this, like I seem to enjoy. Like I'm very attracted to like new organizations to start up. Like, there's just something about, like, just that chaos that feels so familiar and fun, stressful, but familiar, you know. And so I could definitely relate to that. And I think that I can only imagine what all of your kids have grown up to be. But I'll tell you firsthand, like what the military life has, you know, how it played a role in my life, especially becoming an adult? Teresa, I want to go to you Do you agree with Jessica and Elaine? Do you feel like you have been able to like master or embrace like thriving and chaos?

: 19:26

I have four kids, and also a pandemic puppy. So yeah, I tend to over extend what you just said about jumping around and not be able to sit still and not being satisfied. That's kind of really what it boils down to. I'm just not satisfied with the ho hum I guess. But yeah, I will organize and schedule myself all day and then go What am I doing? I can't do I'm one person, but I get it done. You know, and I don't often ask for help. It has to be super serious for me to say I have a whole family lives in my little town and I never really asked him to help me do anything. But I'm the first to help somebody else, you know? Yeah, it's just how I roll. And I still constantly volunteer that I never get ombudsman in me, I've never gone away. I mean, even Jessica flew cross country to stay with her as my puppy. When my husband and I went somewhere I forget where we even went, Jessica came down and helped. And I said, what we do? Like, I don't think the military spouse ever believe you or ever will leave us or buy US military kit. I don't think that ever goes away. It's just too much. I was military spouse longer than I wasn't, you know, I've been with my husband longer than I haven't been.

Jen Amos: 20:39

Absolutely you bear with him for the more than half of your life. So that's just ingrained in you.

: 20:46

I was 17 when we met, and I'm 44. Now. I mean, we've been 27 years 20 whatever that is. But yeah. And little kids, and I just kept having kids during this time, like, I don't remember a lot because I was sick, and to the three kids under three, and had a horrible dog that time. And I just kept having babies compartmentalize more time by continuing to have more children.

Jen Amos: 21:11

Awesome. Well, yeah, I feel like that should be a T shirt. I thrive in chaos, you know, just some kind of meme somewhere. So thank you, all of you for just giving kind of a snippet of what that initial years of military life has been like, and really just that common theme of thriving in chaos. And so I want to get into the next part here, that's really important. Because obviously, you all are in a place where you're able to reflect now you know, kind of able to reflect and look back at things and be able to learn like actually see the lessons of your time in the military. And it seems like the most important thing that we all wanted to address here today is the importance of mental health. And, Elaine, I know for you, you are quite the advocate for mental health and wellness for veterans and first responders. So let's start with you and share with us like when did you begin to know that mental health had to be prioritized for yourself and for your family? And of course, how it's trickled into the work that you do today?

: 22:11

Yeah, that is a great question. Gosh, when did I, I guess when my husband realized she

Unknown Speaker: 22:18

was going crazy? Yeah.

: 22:21

I had some good years. Then, after, at one point, it just kind of came to a head that all my friends are dying, or All my friends are divorcing, you know. So it was just like death deployment, or divorce. You know, those were like the only kind of happening around me. And I really started mentally breaking down. Myself, I was drinking too much, I was having massive, massive panic attacks, it was starting to not go well at all. And this was towards the end of my husband's career, or like deployment career, I guess, at the command and all of the guys kind of ended up going to this place called nyko, which is the National intrepid Center of Excellence. And it's a specialized branch of Walter Reed kind of to kind of document and go over, you know, post traumatic stress and brain injury, like all the other physical and mental injuries that they get from, you know, 20 years at war. And that's kind of when it hit both of my husband and I that okay, in chapter two, we're really going to try and focus on our own mental and emotional health. And then in doing that, also try and give back because we say all the time, it's not a matter of if it's a matter of when when you're joining the military. And I honestly think that from the get go from the recruiters office to boot camp to all throughout your career, you need to be taught mental health resiliency and how being sympathetic, dominant can change you and it changes the brain. And you need to do things that kind of counterbalance that. And also that when you get out and if you're just starting, it's a practice, you know, you don't just do a yoga class, meditate one time, and it's good. You know, you have to keep keep at it. You know, this is a really stressful time for all of us during this pandemic. And I've noticed, you know, my mental health has kind of been going in waves. So you have to do the things that kind of keep you Well,

Jen Amos: 24:31

I guess. So. Yeah, I think the way that I see mental health is, it's like how often you need a shower. It's like, if you're dirty, you should shower. I mean, obviously, the pandemic we've sort of kind of pushed that off for a couple days. But the more important thing is, just because you shower once doesn't mean you're going to be clean forever. And just because you take care of your mental health once doesn't mean you're going to be saying forever, right? Eventually, there's something else that might trigger you whether it's something in the news, whether it's something that your kids do, whether it's Something in just your walk that reminds you of a very triggering time in your life. Like, it's very important to know that, like, you know, taking care of your mental health is like showering or is be consistent with that to stay clean, just like with mental health, it's like, you can't just do it once and expect that you're going to be done with it.

: 25:17

Yeah, and, you know, a lot of times, you know, like, we were just talking about when you're in the thick of it, especially like our husbands.

Unknown Speaker: 25:26

You know, it's,

: 25:27

I don't know, if it's, they don't want to, or they're just not able to, or they're in that fight or flight response. And, you know, they don't want to be emotionally aware, emotionally connected. I mean, they're working on, you know, deploying and staying alive, basically. And being operational is the only thing that matters, kind of when they're there. And so, it's a lot of times that they're not coming to terms with a lot of what that does, until, you know, we're going through a transition or retirement. And so then it's like a whole nother ballgame, a whole nother war that you're fighting after that, that I think all three of us are kind of going through or getting out of or still trying to figure out. So yeah, it's like, I don't know what's easier when they're shut off, or when you know, the floodgates open and you're trying to deal with, you know, 20 years of shit, that's now coming out of everyone. So it's just interesting, you know, now we're in like, a whole different war of our own after,

Jen Amos: 26:33

you know, that reminds me of all the times, because my husband is a veteran. And I always tell him, like, hey, like, I'm here for you, if you need to talk to me, I want to comfort you. And then I don't realize it, but there's, you know, there's like a point of the day where he's expressing himself, and then I totally dismiss it. And he's like, you always told me to open up to you. And when I finally did, You shot me down. And I'm all like, Whoa,

Unknown Speaker: 26:54

whoa, whoa,

Jen Amos: 26:55

I was not expecting that. Okay, like I was at, I kind of started throwing out there thinking you would never open up to me, you know, so it's, it's funny, I like how you say like, either, it's either the floodgates are gonna open, or it's just gonna be like, complete silence. But when they do open, it's like, Whoa, like, it just completely catches you off guard. I feel like I can relate to that to a certain extent. Just like, I want to go with you next. When did you I guess, kind of realize for yourself the importance of mental health.

: 27:22

I think when you know, we got to Virginia 99, a 911 happened. And we just started cranking. And I think it was like 2007, or maybe 2008. So when we first got there, they guys check in, they have to bring their wife because their wife has to sign an NDA. So you go in there, they give you a pencil, there's a whole you know, like people in metals and stuff, and they're like, don't talk about this place. You know, you're put on the don't ask questions diet. So there's nothing the command was not there to help the families, they were there to perform a function. And you were not part of that function. So there was no like, welcome. There was no Hey, we have these programs for you guys. Nothing. So 2007 2008. I think, I don't know, Teresa, you might know this better than me. But I was an ombudsman. And they were starting to send us to these, you know, resiliency courses, and talk about resiliency. And I had never heard that word. And I had no idea what that entailed. I didn't know that was the thing we would need. But, you know, after eight or so years of being there, and, you know, there's a lot of casualties that we had dealt with. And I think we were past the point. We needed that training eight years ago. So when we finally were starting to hear about it, we're like, What is this thing? Like? These are signs and symptoms we're supposed to be looking for? You know, who knew? So we played catch up the entire time. We were at that command part of that. And you know, wasn't, it got better, you know, the command started having programs that we were the first ombudsman, they didn't have Ombudsman for that command before we got there. So it took them a really long time to transition into let's support the families. Because if the family's not right, we're not going to get 100% from our people. So it would be it behoove them benefitted the command and their function to have their members supported by the family. So it was a secondary. I mean, they didn't care about us necessarily. They wanted their people to be good. So we benefited like secondarily from that. Yeah, and there were you know, I think at one point or another, we were all on Ambien because we weren't sleeping. I think for me, it it culminated into physical ailments. I was getting migraines, I wasn't sleeping. I had heartburn all the time. So I think I didn't necessarily notice that I was in high stress lifestyle cuz it's your normal, right? I mean, you live in this thing. It looks normal to you all your friends are having the same normal so you think it's what's expected. But it manifested for me. So I didn't really realize until you know, years later that it's like, oh, your body was telling you that something was mentally wrong. And then you know, you start seeing things in your husband,

Unknown Speaker: 30:13

that

: 30:14

also look normal, but really need attention. But I think until we started getting that training and my husband to went to nyko, we learned a lot about the brain. And then after that it started really snowballing into like, education for us in general. So I think it was helpful to know why things were happening. And not just that, you're crazy. Right? So, you know, it was it was nice to hear the science behind it. But yeah, we just learned as we went. But I think the educational part is where we started learning that yes, things are wrong.

Jen Amos: 30:51

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I think that education is Yeah, the key to empowering ourselves, right, realizing that what we feel is normal is actually not normal. No, you're not supposed to be in pain all the time. No, you're not supposed to be stressed all the time. That's actually bad for you, you know, and it does reflect in your, you know, physical health, but it does take like that education. And well, first of all, it takes some kind of catalyst, like maybe chronic pain of sorts to finally realize, like that you need to get it checked. And then when you get all that education, you're like, wow, like, I have been dealing with this for a very long time. And I and this should not be normal.

: 31:24

And so we didn't know, we were supposed to be looking out for another person as well. Like, yeah, we're feeling we're feeling but we didn't know that we were supposed to look out for, you know, their sleep cycle or their physical ailments. And they're not going to be like, Oh, I feel all these things. Like Elaine said, they're not discussing all their, their feelings, you know, so.

: 31:44

And I think like, for me, you know, I was having, you know, these crazy panic attacks, if I wouldn't hear from my husband, and he was on, you know, deployment or a jump trip or something, and I didn't get a phone call, like, I would wake up at three o'clock in the morning and look at my phone. And, like, if I didn't have a call, I would start just cleaning my house, because I'm like, if somebody is going to come and notify me, at least my house is going to be clean, because it was like the only thing that I could really like, control, like, I can't go back to sleep now. So I want to make sure all the dog hair is up, and all the dishes are done. And like, that sounds effing crazy, you know, but like, you'd be surprised how normal that was. And then like with the panic attacks, it's like, I'm not gonna go ask for mental health, because that could possibly make my husband not deployable, like, Hey, buddy, like, sit this one out, and like, make sure that like, your family unit gets good. And it's like, I'm only here right now to facilitate that he can deploy and that he can, you know, go on these training trips. So, you know, you still have that, I'm going to keep my mouth shut, and, you know, tough it through, I guess. And I think that a lot of the guys did that, too. It's just like, shut up and go, you know, and that's what all of us kind of did. And it's like, I'm not gonna reach out to a girlfriend, because she's going through the same damn thing. I know, behind closed doors that I am. So it's like, you don't want to put that burden on anybody else, either. So it's just very, it becomes kind of like a lonely and Barry, just, you know, you you kind of go into like shutdown mode, I guess a little bit.

Jen Amos: 33:24

Yeah, it's like, you want to make sure your spouse can deploy, but then you also don't want to be a burden. So you're kind of stuck in a pickle like you're you really are stuck in this mental prison of like trying to self soothe on your own. And so, you know, you do stuff like you mentioned, clean the house or, you know, just try to stay busy right to work through it. Well, I don't think I've ever heard anyone describe it that way. So I appreciate you really being in detail of that, because, again, this goes back to debunking the romanticization and dramatization of the military life, Teresa, I know you've been sitting there very patiently. So I wanted to get your thoughts on everything that Jessica and Elaine has shared and just thoughts for yourself on in regards to the importance of mental health for you and your family.

: 34:05

I those two, Elaine and Jessica are way better at taking care of themselves. And I am like I think I've lived on this. Ignore myself and my feelings for almost probably the whole time that we are in because I was ombudsman and I was just constantly, you know, taking care of everybody else. My stuff just got pushed way back and way down. I never cried. We never had time, the spouse of service members to never had time to really grieve any of the deaths that happened because there'd be just another one we know or I'm taking care of the new widow and then it was just kind of a constant cycle that never ended. I really didn't realize that I wasn't grieving or taking care of myself until we got out when moved back home. And just literally a year ago started to finally cry like random things and I get so mad at myself and I'm crying now. I'm sure that What's built up, my nine year old, she's my eight year old at the time her best friend died, she had cancer and died really fast. And that just took me down. I finally had something to grieve. I finally had time to grieve. So I've really just started to try to take care of myself better. And other than just taking care of my husband, who's all in the same boat. They all had the TBI and the memory loss and leaving post it notes around the house for him like where I am, where the kids are, I was I was just the caregiver mode constantly. So I'm trying to still be a caregiver, but then care for myself at the same time. It's not it's not super easy. For me, anyway.

Jen Amos: 35:37

Yeah, definitely. Well, thank you, ladies, again, just for being so transparent about your life in the military, and just the realness and the rawness of it and everything that you have been through. Now, the reason why we're all here today is to really celebrate the beauty of sisterhood and community, like you three wanted to come together to enforce, you know, to be able to, you know, band together. And I know, starting with you, Elaine, you were sharing, you know, those those times in your military life where, you know, you wanted to make sure your husband deployed, but you also didn't want to be a burden to other spouses that were, you know, going through the same thing, but you knew they were going through the same thing, they just weren't talking about it either. So let us know, when did you start to reach out like, when did you let's say, got to a place where like enough, I'm going to talk to other spouses and like band together and go through this life together. Like, when did that start to happen for you,

: 36:27

I think I was kind of over that hump. Like, I think when I was actually going through it, I was just numbing, you get a lot of 1000 old drinking buddies, I guess, who kind of just want to numb through it, too. And so I think that, in doing this, it was kind of after I was on the path to really trying to find ways to not be so toxic and deal with things. So you know, I started doing yoga and meditation. And like Jessica said, I think the education is so important. So I started reading a lot about the polyvagal theory and how the sympathetic and parasympathetic the autonomic nervous systems control a lot of what we're feeling and perceiving and just kind of how we're emotionally going through life. And that's kind of how we came up with the humble warrior Wellness Center. Because I think that mental health and wellness is key. And we're bringing in all these different modalities and therapies like the sensory deprivation tanks, and alpha stem and acupuncture. And we want to bring all of that in, but also create that community like environment. So it's just for military and first responders, because community is key and healing. And I think that Justin Theresa, and I can say how difficult it is. I mean, I think that all of us leaving Virginia Beach and finding out what our new life is going to be after the fact is really important. But you lose your people. And there's not a lot of people floating through this life who've gone through the same kind of trauma, and just all the all the shit that we've been through together, you know, and it's really difficult to find somebody who cusses as much as I do, and who you know, has been there all this. So you lose, it's hard to find friendships, I think, when you disperse, and everybody leaves, so, and I'm going to let Teresa talk on, you know what she wants to do with her nonprofit because it's amazing. And it's getting, you know, everybody, all the wives together, and the sisterhood together in that way. But I think with humble warrior Wellness Center, what we're trying to do is get all the guys and girls, veterans and first responders together in the same environment, all working on mental health and creating that community and cross talk that this is a new way to do it, like shutting up and pushing through is, you know, that's not going to make you a better operator. It's not going to make you a better warrior. So let's come together. Let's work on this. And, you know, eradicate that stigma that because everybody's going through it. They're just going through it behind a door that you can't see. So, yeah, yeah, I think I think, yeah, community sisterhood is what it's all about, for sure.

Jen Amos: 39:29

Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Elaine, as we were talking offline. One thing I noticed in the recent decades of or the recent years, really, when I started to dive back into the military community is just how mental health is more valued now than it was in the 1880s and 90s. I just remember, you know, my mom or my dad served 18 years and he, you know, we it's in the recent years that my sister and I started learning more about dad's story, and we had come to find that he really struggled with some Depression and he kept himself like a lot. He didn't talk about what he was going through, because culturally at the time you did it, you know. So just being able to hear these here, you know, an organization such as yours, Elaine that's working on this, normalizing this, and D stigmatizing mental health I think is really exciting and really reassuring. So, Teresa, I know what the pillar foundation you are doing something similar. So let us know, you know what your foundation is about. And I guess how fulfilling it is for you to do it.

: 40:32

Okay. When when we transitioned about three and a half years ago, we we had a plan, always to move back to Texas, but we're both from we had a job lined up, we had money saved, we already purchased a home, I came back to chose schools. I mean, our transition was golden on paper. And when we got here, my sister said to me, You, you seem like you have a robot marriage. And so I fully understand now what she meant. But then I thought, What are you talking about? I'm a robot marriage. And you know, we did because we were just it was just keeping the machine going. And I would live for the weekend that we got to go back to Virginia Beach to see my girls, or we go to a foundation dinner or like a fundraiser and and everyone got to come back together and you just keep him home, just you know, so full of joy and love. And you you saw your people you know, filled your filled your basket or whatever, you know, however you want to say that. And I kept thinking nobody told me this bow of how hard this is going to be leaving the community and my sisters and I moved home. I have five brothers sisters, and we have a huge family and I live in the neighborhood with them. And why am I so lonely. So I just kept thinking, I wish I knew my girls were aware of my sisters, the guys know that they have like their own little network and they know where they are. And they get together and discuss this just like thanks for playing. So I kind of thought, I wish I could bring these women together on a retreat. But I want to some woman in Montana to meet a lady in Texas and they fall in love friendship wise, and they don't get to see each other I want to know when my girls are in Texas, Florida girls want to know where their quarter girls are, and so on and so forth. So the pillar found date, and I created because the women are the pillar of the family. But other than the strength and just much like your podcast title. I mean, it's just, you know, we're holding it together. I for instance, in Texas, I want to bring all the seal wives and Naval Special Warfare women in Texas that are transitioned out, however that looks on a retreat. And then you can say, look, here's the ladies that are two hours away from you, go to Florida, do the same thing. Go to Montana do the same thing. So your retreat is local to you. And they also get you out the door and there's respite and you can do recreational therapy, certainly mental health, you know, we'd bring in mental health providers and yoga instructors and just kind of give these women a week off, but let them find their people again, because like Elaine said, it's hard to find someone with that shared background of commonality. And we moved here and we're like, civilians are weird. Where is everybody has happened, nobody gets us. It's kind of odd, we just we just feel like we're the odd burns in town, you know, we didn't move to a military town. So that's kind of the gist behind it. I just, I need these women feel to get together and see where their people are, and know that they're right down the road sometimes. And then after they go through this retreat process, I would like to have a mentorship set up. So if somebody said, Hey, Teresa, I'm moving to Idaho, and I go, great. Here's your sisters in Idaho, and they're gonna walk you through transition, and they're gonna hold your hand and go, hey, guess what, it sucks for a little bit. Nobody tells you that, you know, and just prepare the spouses, we have to be even stronger than we thought. I mean, we're like, oh, our job done. We are military spouse, and then you know, you retire. Crap. There's more to do. It's, you know, it's not as easy as people, or romantic or whatever. It's just not what people anticipate. And you know, he still has to go to work now entry level, retired after 24 years. And now he's like sitting on a civilian. All our people are making all this money. And we're, you know, back to square one. It's just, just so it's just weird, weird, weird, weird that we keep saying civilian life is weird. I think I want to pull everyone together some more. I want to keep going without all the bad stuff.

Unknown Speaker: 44:15

Yeah, well, thank

Jen Amos: 44:16

you, Teresa, for sharing that. Yeah, I think that is one thing that my husband and I think often about when we work with transitioning military families, because like, it's not just about money. It's about like your identity, you know, like you are completely starting over like basically, like you said, entry level, you know, and for a lot of them and that could be that could feel really embarrassing. I think for a lot of us who have served, you know, kind of like wait, I was this high ranking. I was doing all of this. I was leading all these people. And then here I am back at square one. It's a very humbling, humbling experience. And then also for the spouses who have lost that sense of community. I think it's amazing what you're doing with the pillar foundation. So thank you, Teresa for sharing Yeah, and of course, last but not least, Jessica, curious your thoughts and on the importance of community and sisterhood. And if you want, I think it'd be this, this will also be a great opportunity to talk about that you're an author, and you have a book about children about a children's book about deployment called daddy's on a chip. So yeah, what are your thoughts so far on everything we shared, and if you want to talk about your book, now's your time to do it. Okay.

: 45:26

So there are a lot of different segments to the mental health piece. It's like the mental health of the warrior and their transition and their journey, the mental health piece for the spouse, and their own mental health and, and caring for themselves. And well, while also being a caregiver, like Teresa was saying, and then there's, you know, your, your kids, and my kids have grown up in this lifestyle. So now I'm actually able to see the results. Post 911, my son was born in 2000. So he's only known post 911 combat deployments, and he grew up in that environment. So you know, I've got pictures of him in Arlington, and this mass, funeral and stuff. And so that's all he's ever known. And now he's in the army. So there's several different pieces to that whole mental health family dynamic, that just gets so messy, and you're so busy living, you know, in your chaos, and in your normal, that you don't really notice what's happening with your kids and how they're, you know, perceiving all of this weirdness, and it is completely normal to them because they were born into it. So, but it is really, really interesting to pick my kid's brain now. And to both the good and the bad, you know, like, he's like, you were crazy. Like, I know, I still am, but, but

Unknown Speaker: 46:51

the good news is,

: 46:52

is that living in that survival environment has given him so many skills, you know, for the future. So he sees guys in the army now that have never lived in the military life that don't, you know, they came from civilians, they came from college, or whatever. And they don't know how they don't have any skills. Now, and it's amazing that critical thought and things like that. So it is really cool to see the good that has come out of, you know, our military chaos in your children. The, the one thing I think that has led to all of our survival is our ability to adapt and be the water around the rocks, right? So our husbands are those rocks, you know, they're doing their thing, they're operating their butt in warrior mode. And we're basically as wives just, you know, swirling around and just kind of adapting to whatever obstacles are in the flow. And it really, really has helped all of us to have our own gig, like, I will always come back for these ladies for support, because they know we've all been through the same things. And we have that those bonds.

Unknown Speaker: 48:01

But if you

: 48:03

solely rely on that, for your, your own gratification, I think you're going to be lost, I think, especially after they get out. And after that transition, if you don't have your own interest and your own gigs, you're going to be lost with them, your husband's lost, like they're getting a new job, and they're living without the constraints of the military. And if you haven't already navigated your own interests and your own careers and stuff like that, there's going to be two lost people happening

Unknown Speaker: 48:35

when they get out.

: 48:37

I had my own job, I got interested in search and rescue. So I did seven years as a canine handler, when we moved to Colorado, I started working at a wolf sanctuary. So I already have my interests down. So I think that anchors you to be able to care and help your husband navigate through that transition. So those are my thoughts.

Unknown Speaker: 49:00

Wow,

Jen Amos: 49:01

I mean, obviously, I could sit here for hours and just pull out, you know, just the wealth of knowledge and wisdom from all of you. But I think this is a really good snippet into your lives and why you do what you do today. And it's my hope that our listeners will reach out to all of you individually, you know, to learn more about what you all do. So I think the last question I want to wrap up with is where do you all go from here? Like, what does the next chapter of all of your lives look like? And maybe a few final thoughts to wrap up this conversation? Elaine, let's go ahead and start with you.

: 49:32

So I think for me going forward, it's just you know, we're still diving right into humble warrior and finding a location for that and just trying to serve the veteran and first responder communities. I think for the spouses. I would think that a good if you're new and you're coming into the military, I think you really have to find ways To say yourself and to fulfill yourself, because I know with me, I really lost my identity along with all of this, you know, when I was a military wife, and I think coming out and finding my identity and finding my purpose, and kind of being a little bit selfish at this time of transition with your own mental health and wellness is extremely important. But yeah, like you can't pour from an empty cup. So you have to take time for yourself. And if you want to get in contact with me, you can find us at www humble warrior wellness center.org. And I think in one of the either right or left hand corners, it will link you right to our Facebook and Instagram, and my LinkedIn. And I answer all of the messages pretty quickly. So if anybody wants to reach out I am. That's where you can find me. Perfect. Thank

Jen Amos: 51:00

you so much, Elaine and Teresa.

: 51:03

Moving forward, I'm hoping to start hosting retreats this year, since the especially in Texas since we're kind of open now, with the COVID thing that really put a halt to everything I wanted to do, I can't I couldn't host a retreat. And I feel like the in person is what needs to happen versus I see a lot of virtual retreats. I am learning some grant writing and trying to start some fundraising here in town. I live in a very patriotic city and Tyler so I'm really hoping to tap into the people here to help me just get this foundation going. I do have a private Facebook page for the ladies. And so that's I'm going to mouthpiece on there. I'm constantly venting my struggles or asking questions or letting somebody you know, ask their question and just keeping that conversation. While we're on pause right now with with this pandemic. It's important. Any new spouse, newly transitioned spouse, I'm like, come on, here's our page. Tell me how it is, you know, and let me let me help you. I just that conversation just needs to keep happening while we're kind of on pause. But like Elaine, I have a Facebook page, the pillar foundation calm. And we know there's ways to donate and the website will kind of explain everything, but I'm just keeping on keeping on until we can fully function. You know, everyone, kind of a bad year to start a nonprofit. That's okay.

Jen Amos: 52:25

It is what it is. Yeah, I definitely I'm the kind of person at least since the pandemic where I'm just about trying to fill up my calendar just for the sake of filling it up. Because if not, it's like you're sitting in the reality of the pandemic. And you're just like what, like, you don't want to I don't want to see what tomorrow is gonna look like, like, I don't know what's gonna happen. So let me just be busy in the meantime, but thank you for sharing that Theresa. And of course, last but not least, Jessica, what's next for you? And and any closing thoughts?

: 52:52

Yeah, COVID been really hard because I am a Dewar and I don't like rest days. You know, it's, it's awful for me. So I've learned to crochet, you know, random things. But because of COVID. My job with Oh, 2x is a traveling one. And we do workshops in person with first responders and National Guard. And, you know, there's not been a lot of those this past year, and it's just starting to pick up again, I'm so excited. I'll actually be in Chesapeake in a couple weeks. But, you know, I, I am using this past couple decades of experience with Oh, 2x I'm the only instructor they have that's like a military spouse. And so in addition to their workshops for their tactical athletes, they're looking at resilience class in those workshops for the spouses of those first responders. And I've been working with them to kind of create some sort of program for, you know, the spouse resiliency, because that's really near and dear to my heart. It's something that I've experienced that I've learned a lot, you know, from these experiences, and I and I really am passionate about pushing that forward, to save marriages to save people from committing suicide. I mean, you know, Elaine's whole mission is you know, you have a center for these people to go to on their way home, maybe they have they do some virtual meditation, or they spend some time in the deprivation pod. And then in, you know, and do that instead of stopping at the bar before they come home and have an argument and domestic violence, you know, so, I mean, it is a lot of preventive things that we are passionate about, because we are like Teresa said, we're very few people that we know that are still married. And so I love that I can, you know, work with a company that that is also passionate about family resiliency, spouse resiliency. So yeah, just focusing on that right now.

Jen Amos: 54:54

Yeah, well, you all are incredibly inspiring to me. So I just want to thank you all, again, Elaine, Teresa and Jessica for, you know, joining us here on holding down the fort. And I think our listeners are going to get a ton of value from our conversation. And of course to our listeners, if you want to get a hold of them, we will include everything that they share the links in the show notes. And that's it. Thanks for having us.

Unknown Speaker: 55:16

Yeah, thank you.

Unknown Speaker: 55:18

Yes, girls, it's been a while.

Jen Amos: 55:22

Yeah, with that said, we hope that today's episode give you one more piece of knowledge, resource or relevant story so you can continue to make confident and informed decisions for you and your family. We look forward to speaking with you in the next episode. Until then, tune in next time.