097: How military spouses can be resilient and not resentful with Michaela Rosales

Jen Amos 0:00

hey everyone welcome back to another episode of the award winning podcast show holding down the fort i am your co host jen a moe's also goldstar daughter and veteran spouse and as always especially for season four i have my co host with me jenny lynn stroup who is a military spouse going 12 years mom of two and also a mental health advocate jodi lynn welcome back hi thanks

Unknown Speaker 0:22

for having me glad to be here

Jen Amos 0:25

yes and we are excited as we usually are i don't think i've ever come on a show depressed but i don't know i haven't mentioned that but anyway we are excited to say the least because we have mckaela rosellas with us today and kyla is a life coach military spouse 20 years this year and is a homeschool mom to three three kiddos so mckaela wow welcome to the show

Unknown Speaker 0:53

thank you so much for having me i'm excited to chat with you

Jen Amos 0:56

yeah absolutely i know that there was a lot going on for you before we jumped on i'm just glad that we were able to catch you

Unknown Speaker 1:03

yes me too thank you for the reminder

Jen Amos 1:06

w it's a it's a new year it's: 2021

Speaker 1 1:44

h other people this year from: 2020

Jen Amos 2:23

well thank you for opening up with that i've never been to rome so for people that are i mean i don't know if we can visit it nowadays with the pandemic but you know if people were to visit what do you feel like is one thing they should know that the average tourist wouldn't know

Speaker 1 2:41

oh my goodness there's so much you need like a lifetime to see wrong i mean we live there a year and i feel like there's still so much we didn't get to experience probably because we were locked in her apartment for three months of that year

Unknown Speaker 2:55

yeah

Speaker 1 2:56

gosh i think it's really just don't be afraid to venture down the street alley like just walking around yes the well known historical sites are super awesome to see but some of my favorite things were to just travel down where the locals go and eat in you know in the local eateries and and really get to know the customs and cultures of the italian people because it's such a beautiful country and with beautiful people so

Jen Amos 3:29

i love it i mean this has nothing to do with rome but it reminds me of when i went to london for college and we were able to kind of go in the tourist side like we had a tour guide like walk us around but i met a friend there and he showed us kind of like the real side of london and so he took us all the clubs and like all these things and like the nightlife and and i was like oh this is london you know so it must be fun for you to like really experience rome for you know what it was at the time that you know you were there and before everything shut down didn't only have you ever been to rome or anywhere just you know any exciting not that like anywhere you've been hasn't been exciting but like like any like place where like whoa like me this is norfolk virginia

Speaker 2 4:10

that place is awesome i went to france and monaco in high school but we've never been sent with the military and that's kind of one of the things in our bucket list we'd love to do a european duty station is high on our list of things to do before we stop this military thing but in listening to mikaila talk i was thinking i mean that's just such great advice anywhere you go no matter where you are you know as we look forward to our pcs and just i don't even know are we t minus 45 days or something that was the one thing we did coming out here so this will be our second cross country move and that was what was so fun is that we pick spots on the map that we'd wanted to see that we'd heard things about to see the bigger things like we went to birmingham and saw the Martin Luther King stuff and the 16th Street Baptist church but then it was I have become an expert yelper it's one of my better qualities. We just Yelp like local places to eat. And man did we well, and I mean, one place we went in street court, Louisiana was a converted gas station that used to be a gas station and carwash, and you could still see like, on the floor where the big brushes had, like spun around for years and years and years. And it was just local Louisiana food. It was poboys. And you know, Ben yeas, and it was just so fun to be in the local community. And in some places like that restaurant, we were there for the hour and a half we ate and talked to the owner and, you know, then moved on to the next place we were going, but I think that's a benefit of military life that I've enjoyed the most is like finding those things in those places that aren't just the big must see attractions. In fact, I've never been to the San Diego Zoo. Don't tell anybody. What I've eaten a lot of local tacos, and they are delicious.

Jen Amos 6:02

I can't believe you haven't been to the set. Everyone genuine is not announcement. Dennis, don't edit this out. I'm upset at you.

Unknown Speaker 6:11

I'm just kidding.

Jen Amos 6:12

I'm just kidding. Honestly, to be quite honest. I feel bad for animals and zoos in general. I'm like, let them live their life. You know, like if they extinct, they extinct. It's our fault. We get it. Anyway. I feel you no big deal. I'm not mad that you haven't gone there. Although I just that's just quite fascinating considering how you've lived there for a while. So

Unknown Speaker 6:30

a lot of tacos that may make up for the lack of a zoo.

Jen Amos 6:33

Yeah, there you go. And carne asada fries, tacos.

Speaker 1 6:36

I'm just saying Mexican food has not been the same. And all the different places we've lived. I remember doing from California, San Diego area. Oh,

Jen Amos 6:46

cool. That's cool. Well, you know, in all of your moves, makalah, in addition to Rome, any other places let you We're so glad to have your family live at for a number of years.

Speaker 1 6:57

One of our very first assignments was Japan. And I also love that so we've been stationed, you know, in Asia, and then in Europe, I love living overseas, because part of like, I just truly love immersing in various cultures and learning about their way of life. And I didn't know this about myself until we join the military. But I'm okay with stepping outside of my comfort zone, because of the various opportunities that it presents me and my family, my children, as well as extended family that are brave enough to come visit us in various places. But yeah, I've decided I have a love for languages. I don't know, Japanese, I wish I did. I wish I learned it better more when I lived there. But my family and I are still learning Italian with Italian instructor from Rome. So we do it zoom call or Skype call twice a week. And so honestly, in all the places we've moved, there have been some locations where I thought why are we here again? Nowhere New Mexico. But honestly, the people, the people always make it worth it everywhere. I can't say we've had about assignment because the people have always been amazing.

Unknown Speaker 8:10

I love it. Gentlemen, have

Speaker 2 8:12

you ever had a place where like, what are we doing here? And I mean, yes, but not in like a bad way. I've had a like, whose life is this kind of thing. I think our tour moving from the Hampton Roads area up to Metropolitan New York City area was just like, I mean, I'm of the age and demographic of Sex in the City. And it was like, Oh, my gosh, I never thought I would get to be like here and doing the things and, you know, going to all these fancy parties and doing all this stuff. And so that for me was I continue even for Gosh, we left there five years ago, I still go, whose life was that? Like what happened? And my kids. I mean, it's funny, you know, you talk about what your kids pick up. Because of Matthews job was very front facing and very outreachy for the Navy. And so we got to do a lot of things that as like a regular if we were to move back to New York today is just Matthew jennylyn, we would not have the same experience as we had because of the job rehab. And so like my kids came away from their having gone to baseball games where they got to go to like a suite and eat the food and run around and we moved to San Diego where you can throw a rock and hit another, you know, sailor, and they're like, why are we sitting in the cheap seats at the Padres stadium? And I'm like, because we paid for these or not, you know, and so it's been really interesting to watch how like even they've gone. Oh, that wasn't real. Oh, I mean, it was real. But like, that's not a thing everybody does, or, you know, watching my Dad, come visit us and look around Time Square, and he was in his 60s. And my three year old was like, What is he doing? And I'm like he's never been here and my three year old was like, we've been here Five times since we've lived here, you know, and it's just this, like, I hope they come away with such an appreciation of what we've done. Because so much of it is not quote unquote, normal, but it seemed it was normal at the time for us. And now as they've grown up, they, you know, they get to kind of look back and go, Wow, we really got to do a lot of cool stuff.

: 10:20

The entire time that we were in Rome, we knew we were only going to be there for a year and every morning, I'd wake up and tell my kids, guys, we live in Rome. We live in Rome, Italy, do you realize that, because I did not want to take it for granted. I didn't want it to feel normal. I wanted us to realize and appreciate the opportunity that we had.

Jen Amos: 10:41

Yeah, wow. I love that just kind of like really appreciating the moment and where you're currently living. I mean, if I think about my favorite duty station, it was definitely in Japan, you're close to Japan, because I remember I was like eight years old. And we were like living off base. And it was so safe, off base that like, I remember, like the commute, like my parents would always make from off base on base. And I somehow, like memorized it at eight years old. So I had a bike that my dad found in like a dumpster he was working is so that's weird, scrappy, like that. But anyway, I remember taking that bike and cycling all the way from where we lived off base to on base. And I checked myself in with my military ID. I was like, I'm checking it. And then I remember meeting like, I think my mom or dad like at their work. And they're like, like, Wait, how did you get here? And I was like, I cycled here. They're like, wait, what because like, I if I look back, it's like I remember like cycling through like railroads and dark tunnels. And like all these things that like eight, nine years old thing. I was really young at that time, and it felt so safe. And when I think about a favorite duty station, that was like my favorite just because I had no fear. And then when we came to San Diego, my mom was all like, don't talk to strangers, like, you know, like, don't go to Halloween. Like they're gonna put poison in your candy. You know, it's just, it was just sad. It was sad. I felt sad to be an American. I was like, Can you just go back to Japan like, anyway? I don't know. I brought up that story. That's, that's a very sad story. No, it was a good story as a hopeful story. But anyway, the experience is what we're talking about. And like being a different, you know, different countries and different cultures, I think is fascinating. And I just love it. And I love hearing all of it, and even your own experiences as well, considering how you moved 13 times I think is really incredible. mikaila and you homeschool your kids are you are currently homeschooling your kids. So was that like a decision? You both decided, you know, at a like early on like, okay, we should homeschool them rather than take them through public school?

: 12:32

No, that was not a decision. I'm pretty sure I've heard the words. I will never homeschool. I am seven years in. I was actually a public school teacher in my previous life. Oh, we're kids. And so I had no problem. I was like, Yeah, my kids will go through public school. And then we moved to Las Vegas when my older two were in elementary school, they pre K and first grade. And we decided to put them in in private school there while we were there. Just about broke the bank. At that point. It was ridiculous how much you pay for private school. But we moved and we were moving with the military. We were moving in November and the private school wouldn't give us be like a paperweight for just from you know, August or September to November. So we hand in hot or what do we do? You know, where do we where do we put them I don't want to go put them in a public school to then pull them out to go put them in another another public school when we move and there was all this, they would have ended up moving schools like three or four times in a matter of just a few months. So we've tried like an online k 12 online homeschooling, which was a total disaster. And that's because moving I had a new baby, trying to get them to sit down and do their work a lot of what the world is experiencing right now I experienced just eight years ago, a little ahead of the time. And so when we got to our next duty station, I was like sign him up, like but I'm back in school, they're going back. And then my son, who was about eight at the time, sat me down. It was the last day of Christmas vacation. And we went out for a nice lunch just myself and the three kids and he was like, okay, mom, I have a presentation on why you should homeschool. Like, excuse me. Whoa. And I said, Yeah, honey, that's just not for us. And I just missed him. I was like, that's just not gonna happen. Don't you remember just a few months ago, or a year ago when we tried that whole thing and it was a disaster. And all we did was you had mean mommy all the time? And he was like, Well, yeah, but I think it's gonna be different. Anyways, I just missed him and just said, No, I really don't. That's for us. And then I felt really conflicted. I couldn't sleep. I was tossing and turning Just thinking, Oh my gosh, what am I supposed to do? You know, Lord, what am I supposed to do? And I didn't want to tell my husband, because in some ways I was scared of his answer. I was like, all right, so I told my husband and we sat down. I was like, you know, Brian, that's our oldest. He asked me to homeschool. And he's like, you know what I've been thinking about? I think it's a great idea. I was like, No, I want you to say that. Anyways, I was gonna wait and pull, you know, for the next school year. This was sometime in the spring when I had worked out all my issues. And long story short, I pulled him out in March of his fourth grade year. Wow. And we just ever since we have been homeschooling, although I do have to caveat, my older two, once they got into high school, they do an online curriculum. But it is a school that is meant like it is very managed. And that's what they're designed to do. So it's not chaotic, like other people are experiencing right now. Because it's very, they go to one class, and then they have, you know, the rest of the day to do homework and studies offline.

Jen Amos: 16:07

Yeah. Wow, what a story, Daniel, and you were nodding a lot. And I know that you are you have recently decided to homeschool your boys. So thoughts?

: 16:16

Oh, man, that story. I'm pretty sure I've said at least 1000 times it comes close out for me. I mean, I was a public school teacher too. And one of the greatest things about being a public school teachers at 3pm, you send all 25 or 30 kids home, yeah, to their parents. And I just, I mean, I loved my students, and I loved what I taught. And I had, you know, it was great. And also you got to break. And so I knew being a mom that like what I did not want to be was both mom and teacher, because there was nowhere else for them to go. And, you know, inter global pandemic, but you know, cause everyone to shift courses in some way, shape or form. And for us, knowing that we would be pcsing this year and not having a timeline for I mean, it's a similar thing, like, you know, out here in California, we've been locked down more than most. And so, you know, first there was talk of, oh, hopefully, we'll be back second quarter out, that's not going to work. Maybe we'll be back after Christmas. Oh, that's not good. Well, I mean, you know, here it is March, and they are district starts back in a week or two. And it was one of those like, I just didn't want one more transition for two kids that already lived transition all the time. And it was like I personally working full time and Matthew working full time, like could not navigate one more like up in the air thing. Me we were already up in the air with a pandemic, like, Why were we going to it. And so for us, we made the decision to homeschool this year. Now, that being said, we are very much looking forward to public school come the fall. We have prepared our people for that. And there are many days they've looked at us and gone. Oh, yeah, I remember that time we went to school, we're ready to get back there. And we're like, yeah, we are all ready for that. But I mean, I think it in a lot of ways, though. I mean, it has provided us the flexibility that we needed for this year, and knowing that we have done it, and no one in our house has died from it. You know, I think it's good to know that it could be an option should we need it in the future. But my preference is to be mom and not a teacher. And we have learned that this year. And also everyone has still learned we're still doing math, writing and reading.

: 18:25

And not just mom and teacher, it's mom, teacher, Principal Secretary like you're wearing all the hats. And I will say our first year of homeschooling was extremely volatile. And there was not like, every time my husband walked in, he didn't know what he was going to get for me if I was like, Oh, we did this craft. And we did and I was really happy. Or if I was like, those kids are going to one of us gonna hurt each other. Like, I don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow if we have to keep going. But I will say that a blessing that has come out of our homeschooling is I have learned about each one of my children and their style of learning and how they communicate, which I don't know that I would have gotten or I don't know, that I would have paid attention to it's not them. I don't think I would have paid attention as closely. Had we not homeschool, even for just a year. You

Jen Amos: 19:18

know, when I think about like homeschooling versus like public schools. And I mean, I grew up in the public school system, but I had cousins who were homeschooled by my aunt, because you know, they're in the military, they moved around a lot. And it just made sense for the family to homeschool them. And I find that I would say the the benefit of homeschooling or even like private lessons, in a sense is that or Yeah, private lessons, is the attention. I think the difference between, like how a kid succeeds is the amount of attention they're given, you know, to learn. And I think that's the benefit of homeschooling is just like what you said mikaila like you were able to see your kids and see their style of learning where you know, in a public school system where You have, you know, so many students in the class, like a teacher, I imagine a teacher can only do so much to pick up on, you know, each individual student's style of learning. And so, you know, I don't think they're dumb. I just think sometimes it's just that a matter of attention, that that undivided attention, that's so necessary. And that's something that I definitely wish that I had growing up, because, you know, I was not a good student. I was not the best student out there, you know, seeing the difference. And I used to think like, Oh, I never wanted to be homeschooled, like, I want to be street smart, like, I want to be in the public school system. But you know, I also didn't have, like, I just wasn't into certain subjects, because, like, I didn't have that extra tutor, and I didn't have that extra help. And so I think, you know, just to you and your credit of homeschooling, I think that's the benefit, right, is making sure your kids are given that attention to learn.

: 20:49

Yeah, I think, you know, don't get me wrong, there have been many days where I was ready to pull my hair out. And it's not easy. And it's not for everyone. For our family. We took it one year at a time, and we, you know, reassessed each year. And because we move every one to three years that has made the most sense for us. Point in where my children are at. I have a minor 1714 and nine, but there's, you know, My son, he's raised quail. He has built a foundry with his father, he's built a skateboard, he got into blacksmithing, like, wow, they taught themselves the older to tuck themselves how to play guitar, and are continuing to do that. These are things that if they were in school, they would have never had the time to do it. Yeah. Our school they looked very much like go to school, their school all day, quickly, come home, get a snack, do your homework. Now we're off to extra, you know, soccer or whatever sport they were in at the time, then it was quickly come home, make dinner, eat dinner, get ready for bed, do it all over again, which was the schedule that we were accustomed to. But homeschooling we kind of peel that all back. Again, like you said, anyone they're still doing Reading, Writing math, you know, those kinds of things. But we found some extra time to dive into some random I mean, raising quail Who does that? You know,

Jen Amos: 22:13

my family in the Philippines did I remember when I first visited them, because, you know, it's it's a lot of money to go back to the Philippines with the whole family. But I remember just this whole, like, they had this whole tent of like just quail. And like, at first I thought it was chickens, but you go inside, and it's like it's all coil. And then for dinner, we'd have like the tiny quail eggs. But you're right. It's like, that was like the first day like I don't even know anyone else other than my family that like raises quail. It's just so fascinating.

: 22:36

Well, you know, the reason why he did it is because he wanted to have chickens, but and he couldn't patch chickens. And so he found a way he read all the regs of the base housing, and the military and found a way around the chicken thing. And that's why we ended up with quails. And we literally, how are we? What are we doing? And you know, they all ended up running away, or, oh, no, one of them got eaten by a hawk. Um, but it was our experiences that we just we laugh about, and we, you know, we chat about all these random things that he thought our family do. And they they made personal good memories.

Jen Amos: 23:15

Yeah, I'm sure that their friends are like, so what do you do like if you have a dog, you know, I have quail, quail, but one got picked up by a hawk recently. So

: 23:24

which are quadrate mascot when my husband was a commander was the hawk. And I didn't even put two and two together. I was like, Oh, my gosh, look at the hawk sitting on our fence. And I didn't think about the quail being in their little coop outside and see him swoop down. I'm

Unknown Speaker: 23:40

like, oh,

Unknown Speaker: 23:43

you're like so majestic. But oh my gosh.

: 23:47

That's awesome. Well, we have not gotten into raising animals. We have a patio and no yard. But it has been fun. Like for me to see like the pace, my oldest son is very self motivated. And I'm like, here's what you have for the day. And he wants it done in an hour. And he will sit down and do it. My youngest is like I want to snack. I need to take a break. And that for me has been what's fun for us is that we've set the parameters here, the things you have for the day, including your chores, make your bed, brush your teeth, somebody has dishwasher somebody has seen like, all of these things get done before you get to like go on screentime or watch TV, but it takes my oldest an hour it may take my youngest four, but they both do it. And most days nobody is having a meltdown over the stress of the work. This morning, we got back into our writing program and there's a lot of drama. But you know, those days are fewer and farther between than just knowing the expectations they have set for them and then meeting them on their own terms I think has been really helpful for us. And kind of the break we needed. Like my son was in a class that was getting larger by the year as he like moved up in grade and it was like ability to disperse the personalities, if you will. And so there were a lot of personalities in each classroom and no way to kind of work around them. And that was very frustrating for him. So I think for him, he was just like, Oh, good. I just get to do the stuff because he could and my youngest, I think, is missing the social interaction a bit, but also has the freedom to get up and walk around the table if he needs to, unlike in a classroom where he was like the kid fidgeting in his desk, okay, pay attention, pay attention. And helpful for us in that way. No coils though. Or dogs or chickens.

Jen Amos: 25:36

You have enough to handle jennylyn.

Unknown Speaker: 25:39

Well, yeah,

Jen Amos: 25:40

I mean, I've really thoroughly enjoyed our conversation day like, although we like sort of had a plan. I just love the direction that we went, which is pretty much I think, very reflective of military life is the pivoting and recovered zone. And I say all this because you know, Kyla, you know your experience being, you know, military spouse or 20 years this year, you have a lot of lessons, you know, that I'm sure you have to share. So, so let's go ahead and dive into that maybe what's like the number one lesson that comes to mind right now that you want to share with our listeners, who are, you know, typically new spouses, a good mix of like new spouses to seasoned spouses?

: 26:15

Yeah, some things that I learned along the way are definitely that there's power in asking for help. I think a lot of times in the beginning, I felt like if I asked for help, or admitted that something was, was difficult, or that I was having a hard time that I would be considered weak, or I would be impacting even my husband's mission, because I wasn't capable of doing, you know, doing something, or I was always so leery to ask for help or to reach out because I didn't want to impose on anyone, I didn't want to step on anybody's toes. But the older I've gotten, the more seasoned I've gotten, I realized that there is so much power in asking for help. And it's not even just for my own sake, there's power in it, because it gives other people permission to ask for help also. And I think as a seasoned spouse, it's even more important to show that to the younger spouses that there's, you know, the that asking for help is not a weakness, I wrote a paper for a master's program that I was doing. And it was about that military strong persona. And yes, our spouses who are in the military have this strong persona, of, you know, never complain, do the mission, be strong in all these things. But I think as families, even our dependents, even our children can sometimes take that on as well. But really, what it comes down to is this life is hard. Being a mom is hard, being a spouse is hard, moving, transitioning all these different things is hard. And so to be able to say, I need help in all different whatever it is, whether it's with your kids or your house, or figuring something out how to maneuver military orders or deployments and things like that, to be able to say this is hard, and I need help is powerful.

Jen Amos: 28:10

Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that makalah. Because I one of the past episodes that I recently recently did was with three seasons, spouses, where their experience ranged from, I think, 15 to 25 years like in the service. And one of the biggest things they learned is to ask for help, like you should ask for help. And I think part of the insecurity or part of the fear of asking for help was not wanting to be a burden. They had mentioned that, oh, if I have issues, I don't want this to prevent my spouse from deploying, you know, so there was some valid fears as to why they maybe didn't want to ask for help. But eventually it caught up with them, you know, eventually you start to realize like, you can't hold it together on your own forever. So I really appreciate you just sharing the importance of asking for help. And I think the sooner you ask for help, the better, so that you don't have to learn the hard way that you need help.

: 29:02

Exactly. My tagline is be resilient, not resentful. And I found in my own, as well as in my clients that we start building up resentment when we don't ask for help when we feel isolated and alone. When you feel like you have to carry all of the weight of military life on your shoulders by yourself. That starts to slowly chip away and turn into resentment. But asking for help reaching out, admitting when things are hard. That to me fuels resiliency, and so that's my kind of go to is be resilient. That was awful. Yeah, I

Jen Amos: 29:38

think that's a powerful quote. That's amazing. I wrote it down. jennylyn any thoughts on that?

: 29:43

Oh, no, I love that. be resilient, not resentful. I mean, when I survey my own time as a seasoned military spouse, I mean, that is the number one killer of all the things is the resentment that grows over the little in the big stuff and it was in learning to ask for help and love That show and being willing to go first to talk about it that opened up a hole. I mean, I have a master's degree in elementary education. And I'm an outreach coordinator for military mental health clinic, like those two don't necessarily parallel and like a career choice. But I'm here today because of like my willingness to talk about what was going on in my house and get the help that I needed. You know, and that kind of propelled me forward into this military advocacy thing that I never saw. I mean, that is not what I imagined myself doing ever in my whole life. And yet, I love it, and I fit here, and it's wonderful. But it all came from seeking help first, like knowing something is off here, and I don't know how to hold it anymore. And then sharing that experience with others and going, Hey, this was really hard for me, I asked for help, I'm willing to be that person, you ask for help until you're ready to talk to somebody else that you know, I'm not licensed or anything, but I'm happy to, you know, listen to, you know, what's on your mind.

Jen Amos: 31:07

Yeah, very powerful. And, you know, I imagine makailah, that what you do with honest talk has a lot to do with that phrase, I imagine, be resilient, not resentful. And I think, you know, part of that is to have honest talks. So I feel like that's like my shameless plug for you. So you know, let's, let's talk a little bit about life today. And you know, what you're doing with honest talk, I know you have an online community as well as a podcast show.

: 31:29

Yeah, so honest, talk radio is my podcast. And it is, it's all about that honest talk. I got tired of people, I could see they were hurting, I could see them struggling. And they didn't want to say anything, because they were so worried about possible ramifications on their spouse, or how they would be perceived in the community, or things like that. And so I just try to have as many honest conversations around good, the good, the bad, and the ugly, as possible. I'm also a mental health advocate, I truly believe that it takes a village, and we do have our military spouse community. But again, if there's so many layers between feeling like I can share, but I can't share, but maybe I shouldn't share, you know, even assignments in 13 assignments, I've cried it, every single one of them, even if I was excited to go there. share that, you know, I'm like, Oh, yeah, he called and give me an assignment. And I cried. But then once I, you know, sat down and thought about it, I got really excited. And I talked to people who knew people that were there or had, you know, so it does, it takes a village. But with that in mind, is why I've created a new group coaching community, to bring people together. And you know, it's a platform to help people feel connected in a really isolated world right now. feel supported, encouraged, but also accountable to someone you know, we all have these big goals and dreams and aspirations. But then there's this challenge that comes up, oh, well, we're moving and I should probably not started again, oh, this is happening. Maybe I'll wait. I waited for a long time to have my career to figure out what I wanted to be when I grew up. I dabbled in so many different things, trying to figure out what can I do with this military life that I'm not starting and stopping every single time we move is where on this talk came from. Because I'm now I'm kind of rambling. But I was a childbirth educator, and still am for many years. But I would build my business in one community, I would make connections with the doctors and nurses and midwives and people around the community. And then I would have to two years later, shut it all down and then started started back up the next place, which it takes a year to make those connections and build that trust. Yeah. And then I only had a year of a thriving business, and then I would have shut it down again. And so I started off by moving the childbirth course online. And then it grew into more with childbirth obviously is a huge part of life. So coaching people in that life direction, but then also just life in general, and helping them meet their goals and come up with a plan and see all the different things that are going to get in the way and make a plan to overcome. And that's what I tried to specialize in this is helping you overcome the distractions overcome the things that are going to try and knock you off and reel you from taking those steps.

Jen Amos: 34:30

Yeah, I think that's amazing. And, you know, I think you set that example by being the first to have these honest conversations, you know, and giving people permission to do the same. But yeah, I mean, a lot of people are hurting right now. It's very easy to feel isolated and to fall into depression. And you know, I've definitely been a victim of that myself, you know, lately, which I'll tell genuine more later after this recording. But yeah, and so it's just great to have Honest talks just like what I feel like we're having here. So makalah thank you for doing what you do. And I know for our listeners will have in the show notes, your website, honest talk international comm if they want to learn more about that, the last thing that I am most excited for you mikaila is that you are one of the partners are speakers at a VA retreat, which is started up by Jen Pasquale, who was a former guest on the show. So let us know a little bit about that retreat, which is coming up soon. And what are you most excited about for it?

: 35:30

You know, again, I'm the most excited about the fact that it's going to be a time and a space and a place for safe, honest conversations, and, you know, a safe space for seasoned spouses to help one another because I think a lot of us, Jen and I have talked extensively for a while now that even seasoned spouses still feel this stigma almost to be able to to share what we're struggling with. Whether it depends on our spouse's position, you know, the longer you're in, sometimes the smaller your circle gets. And, you know, being able to be open and honest about the struggles and the wins. You know, also, I don't want to just hone in on the hard things that military life brings. But there's also some great things that you want to share. And not everybody understands why they're great, or how they're great. And so I'm just really excited to get together. And like I said, in the beginning, virtual connections have been my jam over the last year. And that's what's been keeping me afloat in my mental state, physical, emotional, mental. And so I'm just super excited about all connections and meeting new people and having those great conversations.

Jen Amos: 36:40

I love it. And I'm so very, I'm just in awe of you and everything that you've accomplished at this point and continue to do and I'm sure it's going to be a great retreat for our seasoned military spouses.

: 36:52

I love both your your title and your tagline on his conversations. I think, as I was listening to you talk, I was thinking of I used to be a mops leader. And that was really kind of my first place to plug in for connection in those years that I had small children. And thinking about this one in particular, where we were supposed to we had this same table group the whole year. And so those people at the table, that particular year got incredibly close, many of us are military spouses, but not everyone. And it was this really neat mishmash of like civilians learning for military spouses and military spouses, learning from civilians in this really great group. And one of the very last things we did was we had to write something that we'd like, learned about or appreciated about the other women at the table. And one in particular, always struck me and it's one of those things that I get up in the morning and dress, the way that I dress and put on my makeup, the way that I put on my makeup, because it makes me feel good. But what it does for other people is kind of sometimes makes me look unapproachable. I'm learning because I look really put together. And what I learned from those writings, in fact, that's why I'm muted because I was looking for it. And I was rummaging around in my desk. Because I've kept all those for several years now. And one of the women who became one of my closest friends that year and remains one, you know, she said, I just really was really intimidated by you until you opened your mouth, which we all love that. And she's like, but and honestly, it's because you were honest about where you were at. And it's very easy to assume that because you get up every morning and put on your makeup, the way that you do and dress the way that you do to assume that nothing is wrong, then everything is fine, that you're doing this life really well. And easily. And so to hear somebody put that looks put together, like you go, look, my house is a shit show. You know, we have this and that and the other and have had to ask for help for all of these things she said was just so comforting. And it's one of the things that I think, made that table group so close was that it was a space for all of us to share the I mean, we had a couple people that had husbands on deployment. We had a couple people who are civilians who were like sitting why died like what is happening. We've never heard these things. But it's fascinating. And then those of us who had been through those seasons before or were about to go through those seasons again, it just it was the honest conversation and the ability to talk about those resentments that would eventually grow into something that was untenable. And so to like have a space to let those go like I just I think it's amazing that you've done that online, especially this day and age like that really is for most of us are getting our real connection. I mean, like I said, still in California, we still don't see a whole lot of people. So to have a space like I think that's great, and I'm looking forward to the evolve conference where you share that with others and hopefully people can find a space They're

: 40:01

thank you a couple things came into my mind while you were talking. And one of them was he mentioned the mops. And that was another reason why on his top kind of evolved because as my kids grew, I felt like my ability to connect with people started getting taller, because now my kids friends weren't necessarily friends with my friends, kids, and they got older, that became a lot more difficult and trying to their schedule became a lot busier. And then that was less time for my friendships and connections. And so trying to again, step out of comfort zones, think about ways to meet people to get connected to have those honest conversations became harder and harder. And so that was another reason why we evolved into what it is today. And then the approachable comment, too. I like to get myself and I have to admit, disclaimer, this last year has been very different for me. You know, the first time putting on real pants was long ago. Yeah, getting read, there's something about getting ready the act of getting ready. Even if I when I started homeschooling, that was something very important to me. Because if I didn't get up and get ready for the day, as if I was leaving the house, none of us could focus and get going. It was very much like we just wanted to sleep a nap and watch a movie all day. But I had a younger spouse, say the other day how they felt intimidated, just because you're in the military for 20 years. did not even dawn on me, because to me, I'm still the same person I was 20 years ago.

Unknown Speaker: 41:35

Yeah,

: 41:36

um, but all that to say is that I speak for myself, but I don't wear my husband's rank. I don't wear his years of service, I just come with the experiences that I love. And I'm I want to share in hopes that it can inspire and help someone and encourage someone in their journey. But not because I find myself I'm like, oh, I've been there, done that I've got the T shirt I'm yeah, then. But it's coming from a heartfelt, don't make the same mistake I did. Don't lose your identity early on, be you and show up confident in who you are everyday and don't apologize for it.

Jen Amos: 42:18

makailah I can see why your life coach, and I love it. But thank you for sharing that. You know, I think all of this is to say also, this is part of the reason why we do what we do on our podcast show here at holding down the fort is to normalize these kinds of conversations and find that common ground because you know, the moment you kind of have that mentality of the moment that you feel disconnected in your head, you can easily go in a downward spiral. But if you have that intention of like, No, no, I'm not the only one going through this, like I need to talk to someone about this. And you know, for you to create a space for that I think is astounding. And you know, we need more of it. I think we need more of it. And we need to keep fighting the good fight. But overall, I'm just, you know, I'm in awe of you. And I admire and respect everything that you're doing. And I wish you continued success.

: 43:05

Thank you so much. You guys have been wonderful. And I loved getting to chat with you today.

Jen Amos: 43:10

Yeah, absolutely. So remind our listeners mikaila if they want to get a hold of you, how can they do that?

: 43:15

Absolutely. I am my handle on Facebook and Instagram is at honest talk International. And I'm also on LinkedIn. I'm just using mykhailo results. And my website is www dot honestok international.com.

Jen Amos: 43:31

Awesome. Well, with that said, Thank you again so much for your time and jennylyn Thanks for co hosting with me as always

Unknown Speaker: 43:38

so fun. Glad to be here.