189: Scott R. Tucker and Mike Wallace Talk About the Importance of Research Before Making Big Career Moves

Scott R. Tucker 0:00

We are live. So welcome back to another episode of take a knee Tuesdays with Mike Wallace. Hi to Mike.

Unknown Speaker 0:07

Hey, doing good Scott.

Scott R. Tucker 0:09

I'm an Army guy. What is tail look? Like? was terrible. How did you get it?

Speaker 1 0:16

Well, it's a it's an organization in and of itself. It's comprised of naval aviators, typically, right, those individuals that have spent some time or a lot of time right of their lives, landing on and off of aircraft carriers, right. And they've kind of built an association out of this. So it's kind of a homogeneous kind of grouping. Right, and we get together and over the years, it's really turned into a professional gathering, right? You've seen them where there are, you know, defense industry, large and small, are out there, just more for active duty or, you know, there's, it's a, it's a following all around, it's active duty, it's retirees, right, it's people that have been a part of that it's a great brotherhood, it's a great way to stay current, right and up to speed on what's going on in not only big Navy, but naval aviation as well, too. So it is a networking event, it's a means to come together, it gives leadership, you know, a platform to kind of, you know, share insights, challenges, you know, accomplishments, you know, over the previous year, right to that audience, right. So it's, it's really has grown into just a great time to kind of get together, as you can imagine, right to stay current plugged in with everybody,

Scott R. Tucker 1:29

do you think pilots could be treated at more like a network event, go and go into it a little bit more intentionally, maybe do some pre networking on LinkedIn before showing up with that, you know, or is it is that you know, it's

Speaker 1 1:42

an interesting dynamic right now, having seen it on a different side, if you will, right, spent a lot of time as a part of this organization on my active duty time. And now, you know, post, you know, career progression transition established on the other end. And now kind of plugging back into that organization and seeing it from an A this vantage point, you know, this is going to be a different approach for Bluewater out, you know, at Reno in that event than what we've had in the last couple of years. This is our third year, Scott, and I'll tell you before, you know, we had a small booth, you had a table, right? You've been at events like this before, right? And, you know, and you're looking to garner attention, and then, you know, you secure a small conference room, where you're going to talk about the advantages of networking and how you want to start early and, and all of these kinds of things. And what we found really over the last couple years is that's not really the environment, we think, where people want to overtly have that conversation, right, as more of a gathering. It's a warfighting. It's a you know, are you getting plugged in, it's, you know, all of that kind of stuff. It's not kind of people I think, are sensitive, and you can remember that were in the uniform, you know, you don't really want to, although I don't think they maybe hide from this, right, we tell our individuals, hey, plan accordingly, right? stay plugged in and get started early. Right? When the time is right, you know, and you and your family and your navy family decide it's time to transition, and there you go. But it's still not that environment where people want to kind of flock to that and do that, you know, in a large gathering. So our approach to this year is gonna be a little bit different. What we do find is that there is no shortage of people that want to have one on one discussions, right, they want to get together, they kind of want to like cuddle up to the, to the side of the bar, grab a cup of coffee, or whatever it happens to be and have those those conversations. Hey, what are you seeing, hey, this is what I'm thinking, Hey, what are your thoughts on this? Right? They want that interaction, they're hungry for that. And that's the trusted, you know, Curt, relevant, credible resource that we want to be for our membership, right? We're not threat to retention, we're not there to entice anybody to leave before their time, right? We understand, you know, retention, and the importance of that, but our approach can be a little bit different, we're going to be available, right? We're gonna just have to be out there as a resource. And we want to have those conversations, right. We just want to be available for individuals as they feel comfortable

Scott R. Tucker 4:09

about talking is the community that small where you kind of already know each other they got this reminds me my dad was being a football coach, they'd always go to the annual football coach's convention, and it was kind of like the old boys network. They'd they'd meet up, like, how big is the event? How many people show up? Well, there's

Speaker 1 4:25

1000s of people that show up to this event, right? I mean, we'll fly out there tomorrow, get in Wednesday evening, but the event will really even start kicking off Thursday morning, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and then it starts to wrap up Sunday and people kind of work around and you know, and there are scheduled, you know, events, right leadership will come and speak you know, you get updates on programs, how industry is engaged with the Navy and some of the things that naval aviation that's are doing so it really has come a long way. It's a great venue and plus, it's just a good time to kind of get together see old friends. But then from our perspective, right, we want to be a resource available for those individuals that want to have these conversations. Right. And we just want to be a trusted resource for right. Yeah, be available in their timeline. So well, because

Scott R. Tucker 5:12

this has made me curious about, you know, we talk talk about all the time about military transition and networking and how to network and in event that I don't even know if it's military, is navy sponsoring this in any official capacity, or is it? The organization itself isn't a direct affiliation, but obviously lose? Maybe, no, it's

Speaker 1 5:32

tailhook organization is an organization in and of itself, right? They are their own

Scott R. Tucker 5:36

and like a USA when they hold their something, something similar

Speaker 1 5:41

like that, right. So you're good Porter down in San Diego, and they've got their board and their membership comprised of some retirees, but some active duty as well to, you know, make that make that presence up. And the active duty Navy actually sponsors, you know, the event, meaning that they participate in it, right, there's a lot of active duty participation, you know, as you can imagine, people travel to this event. So, you know, permissive, you know, TDY travel is authorized and nothing, you know, so it's a supportive of it, but it really has grown into just a great venue for, you know, those active duty and retired individuals to come together. And to kind of really stay current on what's going on.

Scott R. Tucker 6:20

Right? Yeah, in

Unknown Speaker 6:22

the naval aviation business, so So

Scott R. Tucker 6:24

for those that are going to an event like this, you know, I see it as an opportunity, you know, for someone who went through my own transition. And I didn't know what networking was in. I mean, I didn't know what it was, yeah, until I probably even years afterwards, I truly understood. And I started going to events, but I was going more to like Marketing and Entrepreneurship type events. But I started to get good at it, in a sense that I wasn't going there to learn something, as much as I was, I was going there to watch what other people were doing, who were clearly influencers and had something figured out I did. And when possible, I would try to catch who they were ahead of time. Usually, it's from having gone multiple years in a row, you kind of get an idea. And then hey, why not try to link link up with these people ahead of time, you know, on LinkedIn, and maybe just commenting on their posts or whatever. But then when you do see someone in person at the event, especially if you're going alone, and now you guys at this event, probably know a lot of people already you're expecting to run into people. But if you're going to a networking event like this alone, the ability just to find a friendly face can be a game changer, because then you as someone to tag team and bounce around in that way, you're not just sitting in, oh, let's go to this seminar, you just listen to somebody else talk about something you might probably already know a lot about. And you don't have to feel stuck in the room. Because most of the action happens in the hallways between the events, and all of your spending and thoughts on on kind of those types of strategies. You're not for everybody. But some people think, Hey, I'm going here to network like I get this is an opportunity. So it's one of these guys is going to have a job for me one day.

Speaker 1 8:02

Well, you know, I gotta tell you, and remember it back to when I was going to tell the you know, still active duty, but knowing eventually your time is coming, that's absolutely going through, you know, the back of your mind, right, the value of this and kind of stumbled into this. But, you know, you've heard me say this before, and, you know, not really a word of caution, but but just to kind of raise it to a higher level of consciousness for our members. Right, what I would advise them to do is don't relinquish your ability to drive your own outcome. And what I mean by that is, a lot of individuals will make the rounds, you know, you're walking by defense industry tables, you know, government contractors, there's just like the showroom floor is is enormous. And, you know, you're just kind of waiting for somebody to reach out and showing interest in you, right? And it's, you've heard me draw the analogy. It's like a third grader stepping out on the playground, right? And somebody says, hey, we'll take you to be on our football team. And all of a sudden, you're like, Yeah, I'm on your team, right? I mean, we like that kind of interaction for members. And we encourage you to have that, but we want you to not fully relinquish right, the outcome of where it is, you may you know, that may be a great opportunity for you, but we encourage you to prove to yourself that that's a good opportunity. And that's what we want to bring to the table for our members. Right. We've been at this now for you know, going on three years. Right. And I'll tell you, uh, you know, we have hundreds of people that have been through the Bluewater program, our network is enormous, right? We encourage you, you know, to have conversations with people in a networking informational fashion, right, so that our members can quantitatively and qualitatively assess whether or not that really is a good opportunity for right don't just wait for somebody to like you and make the decision for you. convince yourself that it is a good fit, convinced that it's going to support your personal mission vision priorities, that this is going to line out. I mean, case in point, if you're hell bent on staying in some area, and a company reaches out to you and falls in love with you, who has nothing to offer you in that area, that may not be such a great fit, right? for the obvious reason in that use case, you know, so there is a little bit of homework to do. And I think you call that out or at least got right, you know, go there, network, see what's out there, but don't relinquish your decision making authority, right, you know, you ultimately are the best person to assess whether or not this is a good fit for you. And we can help in that regard. And we know that the urge to solve this is going to be huge, especially for those members that are within months, right of stepping up, you know, I mean, you remember what it's like, Hey, you always had a set of orders six months prior before you were going anywhere that was always solved. So and in many instances, this is not going to be solved, but the urge to solve it is going to be there. So

Scott R. Tucker: 11:01

correct me if I'm wrong. But I think what you're saying is you will take advantage of an event like this. So maybe this is the tail hook is in this specific one. But there's obviously all sorts of hiring events are ways to do that actually have some of the questions I want to come back to but what they're trying you often to do is they're going to pitch their product pitch their service or pitch what it is they do to try to hire you. And in that can seem like an almost an easy button. Sometimes if it does seem like a good fit, like an obvious a my resume matches your corporation, whatever. But maybe you an event like this, if you're going in more open minded, hey, I'm not just here to figure out, you know, what's going on at Naval Aviation this year, but eventually, just hey, I'm just networking, for whatever reason, maybe it's helpful in active duty or post military life, and just keeping an open mind and not gravitating just towards the thing that seems the most obvious. Yeah, absolutely

: 11:52

have an open mind. Right. I mean, make those connections meet people, but it doesn't have to, at that juncture, right. be something that is solved definitively, right? I mean, and again, I think most of our members, you know, I love working with our members as they come through our career progression cohorts, and when we talk them through this, right, it's like, you know, it really is, you know, an opportunity for them to kind of step back and go, What are those important things in my life, and I want to preserve and build that box, right? These are my priorities now, what opportunities are going to allow me to preserve what I just said, you know, it's part of my personal mission, vision priorities, and look at that relationship. And then, you know, share these opportunities with your inner outer circle, right? Hey, I'm getting ready to kind of pursue this, you know, you go to your inner trusted circle and say, Hey, what do you guys think about this? And we often kind of get, you know, the head tilted people like, well, like, I'm the one getting the job. I don't care what anybody else thinks. And I'm like, hey, you know, we're gonna give you a little pushback on that, right? I mean, there's what we find is often right, sometimes our inner circle, our outer circle, this trusted Asians that we're with, often really have better insight onto who we are, right? Maybe then we're willing to admit to ourselves, and so that's valuable feedback, right? That's absolutely valuable feedback. And so that's important. Now, whether or not you act on it, you're the voting member, right? You get to make the decision, but we still want people to assess it, right. So you know, these events are great for meeting new people seeing what's out there understanding superficially, some companies that you're enamored with their brand, you're enamored with, kind of like a logo and kind of what they're about, we encourage you to take that a little bit deeper, right? Look in there. How does the company generate us revenue? Is it a healthy company? What's the industry? What's the environment? Like? Is this place growing? Is it not growing? Right? Are they going through hard times? And you know, recently, we've seen tech companies go through massive layoffs. Look at the financial industry right now. I mean, Citibank, Chase Morgan, right. They're letting people go, right? We're talking to lots of members that have went all in who have moved places, and now they've been there less than a year and they're kind of being caught up in this, you know, downsize. Oh, wow. You got to look before you jump. Right. And we absolutely think there's value in doing now and a little bit it's a newsflash for everybody, you know, this new phase of your life. Nobody's writing new orders. You don't have a placement officer, you don't have a detailer, you don't have a community manager you have nobody looking at the landscape right for you and your next move that's all on the member and for some members, that is that's helpful to hear that they're like and you're right that there was a lot done for me before now the responsibility is mine to make sure it's a good environment that members

Scott R. Tucker: 14:45

Yeah, and I think what you're talking about with the inner outer circle, there's a space you know, to feel more comfortable with networking you whether you know people there or not already, you're all what you get. You always have some somebody to bounce an idea off Have at those particular events? Yeah, maybe the industry there, again, not necessarily job hunting, but just building your network might be industry related. At some point. Not everybody has these these types of groups like sure, as Academy graduates, there's some events I've gone to in the past. There's a West Point entrepreneurs group, that's a small group, and it's mostly real estate investors and private equity people.

: 15:21

But there's more, right? It's kind of a like minded or your space. Yeah.

Scott R. Tucker: 15:27

But I have a handful of people in there now that when I see them, either online or in person in different spots, yeah, it's somebody that to kind of bounce ideas off of, so I just encourage people, whatever it is that you could maybe it's not even military related. If you have some sort of association, like maybe would like Tom, well, she would the lawyers that hate lawyer, they're probably not a military lawyers isn't enough for them to have a whole event for it. But obviously, there's going to be civilian events. Sure, go to these things. Don't get sucked up into him. That's another problem with some of these events. But well, I

: 15:57

mean, all these government contracting companies, all these defense industry companies, you know, they all have corporate counsel, they all have people, you know, with legal backgrounds that have to review contracts and these kinds of things, and that check compliance, right, and, and brandy, all these kinds of things, right. I mean, they're not void of the need of those skill sets. Same with you know, logisticians, you know, backgrounded individuals, I mean, they need all kinds of people who are on companies. In fact, I talked to members, I go, Hey, centera medical is a great, you know, growing industry and company here in the Hampton Roads area. Can I go wow, Mike, you know, I'm not a doctor, I don't you know, I don't have any kind of that medical background. I'm like, You're missing the point, right? These companies, they don't need any more people to shove needles in people's arms, right? They've got enough of that they need people to lead those individuals lead those teams, process process improvement, quality project managers, program managers, right process improvement engineers, right. Real Estate, right? They're building buildings, man, they need people to step in and oversee that, that effort, right? It's a big business takes a whole lot more than just doctors and nurses to run that place. Yeah,

Scott R. Tucker: 17:08

we obviously gravitate towards the defense industry and government jobs, that both those things are way bigger than we even we read. And but you know, I found the most use for me personally to do the whole like, take off my uniform, you know, who is gonna Tucker without, you know, a rank or I went to this school, or I have this job title, I have this sort of certification, you to go into some of those kind of outside the box, at least for our military perspective, calm self development, or marketing workshops, seminars, sometimes they're they're kind of flashy, or whatever you get depends on when you go to, but you're gonna see stuff completely different for what people do, you know, for a job, a career, a lot of startups show up at these things. And you can start to talk to imagine talking to more small businesses and getting some insight and you know, who knows who you meet, but I think just have for new perspectives on other industries, especially in this time where things are changing drastically, laterally to Yeah, when they make good stuff. And

: 18:08

that's a great segue to you know, so let's talk about this last weekend, right? And it's another event that you're starting to get your foot in the door on, right? I mean, no brick and mortar approach. What did you and Jen, think about it, ma'am? And for the audience out there, right. I'll just let you give the brief synopsis. Maybe people are aware of it. Maybe some not.

Scott R. Tucker: 18:27

Yeah, no, we just held one of our first local at least we've done these in the past in person out in San Diego, but not for this specific topic and to do a workshop.

: 18:39

And urinary I don't remember, if you maybe you did, I don't know.

Scott R. Tucker: 18:43

Not not an in person one. I don't always I don't know that everything online. Right. Yeah. And so, but we're always kind of testing ideas on hey, how do you solve this Survivor Benefit Plan? decision problem? Yeah. And the struggle that we have as solution providers, or educators, or whatever you call it is that while everybody seems the same, and the assumption is, we're all the same, same, right, we're retiring at this tourist, we know what the numbers are. And yet everybody has a completely different mindset or approach to finances and the different level of understanding of just finances in general. And so we kind of get stuck in that, Oh, I gotta go learn more type of approach. And it feels like hey, now I gotta do more homework and stuff. And so we're trying to do is make it make it simpler is sometimes you need to have a workshop to crunch some numbers and show people how to answer the problem, you know, ease, yeah. So to do that in person, we get a lot better feedback. Obviously, we're going to present some ideas on what we do, but mostly we want to kind of plant roots here locally in Hampton Roads. Obviously, we think working with blue water that gives an opportunity to you know, create more of a an extension of what you do for your day long seminar. I don't know what this ends up Look, and I mean, we were just talking this morning, maybe I maybe I do need, you know, half a day. And we could go a little bit deeper, you know, for the because if someone's going to come to an event, like, do an event on a weekend, or during a weekday, this doesn't matter. If you want to come to a lunch and learn, that's fine, too. And that's how usually sales professionals, I mean, that's what I am a, you know, exactly, we're all small business owners, you're trying to get someone in for a quick presentation to get them interested. But you don't want to waste their time or, you know, get them in, or you don't want to waste your time either if they're not a good fit. And I don't know the right answer to that, we just want to try it. And we obviously want to do more in person stuff. I'd like to do more and even talk about health to some component, because this whole SPP decision is a health problem, you know, in some regards, and the problem being that most retirees don't realize that they are healthier than the marketplace. So therefore they need all 5% better, but we also don't overwhelm. So anyways, the first First

: 21:01

Nation. Yeah, I thought it was a good discussion, Scott. I mean, it was good. And, you know, I'm not sure there's, you know, I know you and Jen. And we kind of talked about it briefly, best done on the weekend best on on the week. And I don't know, I don't know, if there's a if there's a right or wrong decision, that might be one of those things where, you know, for the audience out there for the memberships, like, hey, you know, chime in, tell us, you know, better for you on the weekend better for you on the weekday, you know, or maybe it's one of these things where you offer two a month and you do one of each right to kind of capture people's schedules, you know, I think, wouldn't you want the answer to it, but I thought it was a good gathering. And I thought the discussion was good. It's absolutely something that is a commonality for everybody who comes through our doors, right, who's pursuing their next success? Eventually, they have to have the discussion in and around SPP, and I shared with you Saturday, right over a cup of coffee, as I sit there, listen to the message, my own personal experience, right? It was unenjoyable, right, it was a little bit, you know, the individual that was presenting this was just really hounding and hard, it was threatening, hey, you guys need to do this. And if you don't do this, then you got to have your spouse sign this piece of paper, you got to bring it back to me. And it was just this kind of a little bit of this intimidation thing. And, and again, I confessed on Saturday, you've heard it before. But for our listeners, I would love to everybody to think that I made an informed decision. But man, I just was not warming up to the vibe that I was getting there. And I just said, I'm not doing this, and I just stepped away from it. That may or may not be the right decision for some people or, or everybody in the audience, everybody's gonna make their own decision. But I love your message got that you simplify this, right? You have the ability to break down and really just get it into the small pieces. Hey, this is what this really is. And this is what it means. Yeah,

Scott R. Tucker: 22:56

our goal is simply to help people make them more competent and confident decision one way or the other. And that's, you know, just to hear what you've gone through, or went through to make that decision just felt stressed about it. And you made the kind of like, I don't feel comfortable about this. And so you said no. Versus for most cases, people say I don't know what to do. And so I say yes. And both of those situations are extra

Unknown Speaker: 23:23

decisions, right? Are both ill informed. Right,

Scott R. Tucker: 23:25

right. And again, there is no right or wrong, but it's just unfortunate that that's get lumped in when the priority is the job for obvious reasons. So we just want to make it simpler. If that means coming down and do it in person, one of the attendees said, Hey, we know you got all the videos and the books and stuff out there. But you some people want to have this conversation in person. So we understand that as well. And yeah, I'm even open to going on a road show with this. It just depends on what's best to share the message. But no, thanks, Mike. I really appreciate your time to come. And I mean, honestly, I was just an excited to have you see a little bit more about actually what I do. I've been to a couple of your workshops. So I'm excited to expand this more and find different topics of stuff to talk about or different ways to approach it. So when

: 24:12

you're doing keep your shoulder into it, right, there's, you know, members definitely need to have you as a resource. Right. And it's, it's just, it's, it's a good message. And so I definitely appreciate your partnership on the Bluewater side, right? Because I know our members are going to have these questions. You know, I we can reflect on that. You know, myself in our career progression, you know, consultants, Steve Wieman, John, Mel Tano, Fred Smith, and Webb, these guys, they all went through it, they can absolutely speak to this, but it's not mainstream to our message, right. And I love having you as a resource and a partner where we can just say, it isn't my personal experience. But you know, I've got a resource that I really want to plug you in with you at us about wealth right where you can have that analytical mathema Medical discussion. Right? I know what this is and figure out is this the right decision for you or not? Right? And so yeah, so thank you for all of that. Scott, we love now I

Scott R. Tucker: 25:09

appreciate, oh, Mike, I know you got to hit the road tomorrow. So you probably got a lot of packing to do. So we can cut it a little bit shorter Deb as good half hour now really, really kind of shit on, you know, networking in person, and how to host events. Because, as you host events go to events, it's gonna come up one way or the other. And I think everybody should be thinking about that from both sides of it. Well, how am I going to participate when I go to an event because even that small group we had, that was a little networking event. Absolutely, even amongst the spouses who came. So that's a little bit a little story, because that adds up

: 25:44

over time. And I love it. And I look forward to doing more of those, you know, with you, and it's exciting time. So thanks for what you guys do. We appreciate it. All right, likewise. Yeah, look for us. When we get back from hook. We'll be back next week. Right. And I think you or I are on or Thursday, I believe instead of Tuesday next week. So yeah, trek towards that, but I'll reach out. So

Scott R. Tucker: 26:04

now we'll definitely look forward to hear and kind of be curious to hear your thoughts after we had this little discussion on on the network. And since you're changing up your tactic a little bit,

: 26:14

yeah, we'll see. Right. Yeah. We'll get to give you some feedback on it. And hopefully the listening audience out there if you're headed out to tell hook that's you. Oh, look for us. We'll be out there and happy to have some conversations.

Scott R. Tucker: 26:25

Yeah, go say hi. Absolutely. Awesome. We'll Safe travels. Mike and Eric have our best to everyone on the team.

: 26:32

You bet I will. I just got Yeah. All right. Cheers, everybody.

Scott R. Tucker: 26:35

See ya. We'll see you next time.